The "no driver aids" thread...

[Sodemo]

I just thought I would start this as there didn't appear to be a thread based on the effects of having no driver aids through the 2008 season for the first time since 2001 (or before depending on what you read / believe).

I was a little disapointed that there was no wheelspin off the line from any of the cars, that was one little detail I was looking for.

I thought the way the cars looked so "alive" when cornering both in low and high speed stuff was great.

Regarding Sepang, there is a chance of rain for the weekend, at the moment its forecast for thunderstorms all week, so that could turn out to be interesting if that turns out to be true.

Also, the run from the start line to the first corner is much longer than in Oz, therefore any bad (or good) start you get in Sepang is magnified as you have such a long drag afterwards, so anyone getting a duff start can expect to be maybe 6 or more places behind into T1. Food for thought.

[Kirk]

First off, I'd like to say that I think F1 is headed in the right direction. Having said that, BRING BACK SLICKS!

I too was disappointed at no wheel spin at race start, but not surprised. The surprise for me was the shabby driving. Here's hpoing for no rain for a few races yet.... as the drivers in general seem to have some work to do.

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by Kirk

First off, I'd like to say that I think F1 is headed in the right direction. Having said that, BRING BACK SLICKS!

I`m sure slicks were coming back in `09 season

[Born Racer]

The cars did look scarier to drive.

It's looking good, but I say this with much caution because Melbourne is a "green" track, so perhaps Sepang for instance will offer enough extra grip that this won't be so apparant.

[Ralf's Girl]

The thing that I liked about seeing the cars without driver aids was that they didn't look like they were being driven by some kid on a PlayStation with steering assist switched on. It genuinely looked as if they were giving the drivers some hard work to do, and that's how it should be.

I expected a more dramatic effect on the start of the race, but I think throughout we did see some drivers appearing to struggle - whether that's down to the lack of TC or the track conditions I don't know, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a link between the loss of traction control and the increase in the number of mistakes the drivers were making.

I await Malaysia with interest - it's a totally different type of track to Albert Park, so I'm keen to see how that affects the cars.

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

The cars did look scarier to drive.

It's looking good, but I say this with much caution because Melbourne is a "green" track, so perhaps Sepang for instance will offer enough extra grip that this won't be so apparant.

I think you have a good point there...

looking at the screen data (when they showed it) they are still more than able to use 100% throttle in most corners, so they still have more grip than power most of the time...

I would love to see them have another 200Bhp, that would make it intersting

[f1manoz]

I think the drivers actually had to DRIVE their cars. Sure earned their crust in that first race. Full of incident and with no fancy electronics to help them out.

[Smokey 6 litre]

i enjoyed seeing the cars moving around, and the drivers struggling.
Massa's spin at turn 1 would've been prevented by TC so its good to see mistakes punished.
I think it was Brundle who pointed out that Massa's driving style seems to have reverted back to his Sauber days of lots of steering wheel input, he may well have benefitted from a superior TC system at ferrari and will now suffer now its gone.

[Rockmunky]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXZ6hq2Ix8

Remember this?


It seems more like it used to be again!
Great stuff watching the cars sliding, and seeing the drivers having to wrestle with the wheel, it's what it should've always been about.

[broadrun96]

Yeah, you will see the "old guard" struggle with no TC and the guys just coming in from the TC-less GP2 series (correct?) be a little more adapted to the cars. Will make Sepang and grand time if there's even a little rain to wash the track clean again. I think we will see more than a few races end with 50% attrition, esp if drivers don't adapt faster. Now to work of some of the winglets and other stuff all over the place, gotta cost more for all this aero treatment than engine development.

[Super Hans]

It was a very interesting weekend. Pre-season, many respected F1 experts were predicting that there'd be no noticeable effect, and that mistakes wouldn't increase. I think this weekend may have proved them wrong.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yeah, you will see the "old guard" struggle with no TC and the guys just coming in from the TC-less GP2 series (correct?) be a little more adapted to the cars. Will make Sepang and grand time if there's even a little rain to wash the track clean again. I think we will see more than a few races end with 50% attrition, esp if drivers don't adapt faster. Now to work of some of the winglets and other stuff all over the place, gotta cost more for all this aero treatment than engine development.

Yes, and No. The extraordinary horse power of an F1 car, especially one with no tc, will be difficult for rookies not used to all those horses. For me the surprise in Australia in this regard was Rubens. I thought he would find it quite difficult but it seems I was wrong. However, the verdict is still out; as already stated the Aussie track was green and unusually slippery, but it looks like RB has things nicely under control.

[Jam35]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

The cars did look scarier to drive.

It's looking good, but I say this with much caution because Melbourne is a "green" track, so perhaps Sepang for instance will offer enough extra grip that this won't be so apparant.

I agree that it remains to be determined how much was the lack of driver aids and how much was the track, but it was a really great race. If the greenness turns out to have been a large factor in this, perhaps steps should be taken to reduce the advantage of staying welded to "the line", for instance:

1) allow only one tyre type for the entire race weekend, to be used in all weather conditions (but please break the Bridgestone monopoly!)
2) raise the minimum ride height
3) ban carbon fibre in suspension members (let's have some good risk-taking wheel-banging without the wheels falling off)
4) if all else fails, ban wings

[Jukebox]

1) allow only one tyre type for the entire race weekend, to be used in all weather conditions (but please break the Bridgestone monopoly!)
You have got to be joking right? What if it rained?

2) raise the minimum ride height
Then we'll cars taking off

4) if all else fails, ban wings
i fail to see formula based racing cars without wings.....

[Oldtony]

Another dumbing down of F1. Get used to going back to under 50% finish ratio. If you think seeing cars sideways is so magic why not go to a rally or even better watch the big sprintcars at a dirt speedway.
I think F1 has finally moved from being the best drivers in the best cars to being just another spec series to provide entertainment on TV.

[wills]

Its rather ironic hearing Lewis Hamilton saying that removing traction control makes racing more like back in the Senna and Prost days when back in 92-94 they had huge amount of driver aids on board.

But I'm glad they're gone, lets see some throttle control for a change.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Jukebox

1) allow only one tyre type for the entire race weekend, to be used in all weather conditions (but please break the Bridgestone monopoly!)
You have got to be joking right? What if it rained?

2) raise the minimum ride height
Then we'll cars taking off

4) if all else fails, ban wings
i fail to see formula based racing cars without wings.....

Agree there Jukebox - the most annoying thing people suggest for F1 is banning wings, if they want to see racecars with no downforce go and watch FFord and club single seaters. It would be taking F1 back to the stone age.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Another dumbing down of F1. Get used to going back to under 50% finish ratio. If you think seeing cars sideways is so magic why not go to a rally or even better watch the big sprintcars at a dirt speedway.
I think F1 has finally moved from being the best drivers in the best cars to being just another spec series to provide entertainment on TV.

I don't think it's dumbing down - I think it's making the so-called best drivers in the world earn their money a bit more. I don't believe every race will end up like Australia with hardly anybody finishing; these guys are seriously good, they will adapt to racing without TC, and those that can't do it (if any of them can't) will be found out.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Jukebox

1) allow only one tyre type for the entire race weekend, to be used in all weather conditions (but please break the Bridgestone monopoly!)
You have got to be joking right? What if it rained?

2) raise the minimum ride height
Then we'll cars taking off

4) if all else fails, ban wings
i fail to see formula based racing cars without wings.....

I had the same thoughts, except were you referring to no "extra" winglets as opposed to front and rear main planes
As for the tires, I would hope one compound. If they miss out on the best compound for the conditions, it will make a had race for the drivers.

The comment about thinking F1 is about the best drivers and cars and if you like sliding watch rally. I think most people don't like the sliding so much but the chance of the driver losing traction strains their control, pace and allows for passing when they make a mistake.

[brands]

I enjoyed watching the cars sliding about and drivers having moments. The twitch that Hamilton caught in qualifying at the second last corner as very entertaining.

Thankfully we can start to see more of the drivers skill and less of the engineers.

[Adam43]

I liked it and think it is a good thing. It isn't night and day different to before, but Massa's mistake proves it is worthwhile for me.

[kristof14]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Another dumbing down of F1. Get used to going back to under 50% finish ratio. If you think seeing cars sideways is so magic why not go to a rally or even better watch the big sprintcars at a dirt speedway.
I think F1 has finally moved from being the best drivers in the best cars to being just another spec series to provide entertainment on TV.

The point of removing the aids is that the best drivers will come to the fore, a driver is someone who is able to feel and control every aspect of the car, not someone who relies on a computer to sort it all out for him. The fact is, every driver makes mistakes during a race but you never saw them as the TC sorted it, now we will see the best drivers making a mistake, cathcing it and sorting it and the not so good drivers making a mistake and losing it.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Another dumbing down of F1. Get used to going back to under 50% finish ratio. If you think seeing cars sideways is so magic why not go to a rally or even better watch the big sprintcars at a dirt speedway.
I think F1 has finally moved from being the best drivers in the best cars to being just another spec series to provide entertainment on TV.

This "dumb down" argument is getting tired. There comes a time when you must draw the line on technology and when the cars are on the verge of being 100 percent computer driven, you'd better draw a HEAVY line.
As for the drivers, when they were forced to actually drive the cars on Sunday, they looked anything but the best in the world. Training wheels will erode any driver's skills.

[kristof14]

Originally Posted by Kirk

This "dumb down" argument is getting tired. There comes a time when you must draw the line on technology and when the cars are on the verge of being 100 percent computer driven, you'd better draw a HEAVY line.
As for the drivers, when they were forced to actually drive the cars on Sunday, they looked anything but the best in the world. Training wheels will erode any driver's skills.

Although an F1 fan I reserve the tag of "best in the world" for the top rally drivers. I believe it would be easier for Loeb to adapt and post a competitive time in an F1 car than for Hamilton or Raikkonen to get up to speed in a WRC.

Also the dumbing down surely is a result of all the computer systems taking control away from drivers not removing the systems so the drivers actually have to do some work!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Another dumbing down of F1. Get used to going back to under 50% finish ratio. If you think seeing cars sideways is so magic why not go to a rally or even better watch the big sprintcars at a dirt speedway.
I think F1 has finally moved from being the best drivers in the best cars to being just another spec series to provide entertainment on TV.

Some level of technical restriction is required in order to maintain the human element of the sport.

If the engineers were given free reign, the cars wouldn't require any drivers at all, let alone the best in the world.