Qualifying change (again) ?

Marbot · 20 Apr 2005, 19:24 (Ref:1283277)

BE want's qually changed by Mid-season.HERE

Or try www.itv-f1.com

Steevp · 20 Apr 2005, 20:26 (Ref:1283314)

I wish they'd change it to the DTM system, including the bit where all the drivers in super pole sit together after their lap, I'd love to see Schumi's face in there, especially if he was 10th .. but even his smirk at being on pole would be entertaining..

Come on Bernie... you know it makes sense.

Mike_P · 20 Apr 2005, 21:51 (Ref:1283370)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steevp

I wish they'd change it to the DTM system.

What kind of qualifying does the DTM use?

For the past few years it seems like they're trying to use qualifying to jumble the field a bit - not so much that it makes the start of the race unsafe, but just enough to make it more interesting. That's a pretty tough balance to strike. The biggest problem seems to be that qualifying formats that work well for TV aren't very interesting to watch at the track, and what works for the audience at the track doesn't make for good TV.

I really dislike any qualifying where the cars have to carry race fuel, I just see no reason for it. I don't really care for the two day agregate - I just want to watch the race on Sunday, and the order doesn't seem to change very much from the Saturday session anyway. I think last year's format, but with low fuel in both sessions would be okay. Even the pre-single lap format (one hour, 12 laps per driver, including in and out laps) wasn't that bad. They just need to spread the action out over the hour. Maybe make a rule that the drivers lose laps if they haven't used them by a certain time, like 3 laps every 15 min, or 2 laps every 10 min.

**touringlegend** · 20 Apr 2005, 22:18 (Ref:1283392)

Good suggestion for the DTM style qually - i think it's one that really works.

FYI - in the DTM there is a 25 minute "free - for - all" session for all drivers, followed by 'Superpole' which lets the Top 10 drivers from the 25 min session go out for a 1 - lap shootout each.

Basically, great entertainment

Hazard · 20 Apr 2005, 22:20 (Ref:1283395)

Bernie said the same thing about this time last year...still didn't happen, even though that proposal made sense.

Mid-season rule changes are impractical and always unfair to someone...somebody stuffed up this year, live with it, sort it out next year. It's not too complicated to work out a new qualifying system...the pre-1996 one worked fine, the pre-2003 one wasn't that bad either.

DTM system is a 25 minute dash to set fastest times by all cars on the track. The 10 fastest cars then get a 'super-pole' lap, 10th goes first, fastest last to set the actual top 10 positions for the race. (All others are as originally qualified). - I guess a double post!

Works alright, but it's no thrill. I think the last races results reversed would work kind of well

Mike_P · 20 Apr 2005, 22:26 (Ref:1283401)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Mid-season rule changes are impractical and always unfair to someone...somebody stuffed up this year, live with it, sort it out next year. It's not too complicated to work out a new qualifying system...the pre-1996 one worked fine, the pre-2003 one wasn't that bad either.

I agree with you about mid-season rule changes. I've only been following F1 since 98 or 99, what was the pre-1996 qualifying format?

Hazard · 20 Apr 2005, 22:35 (Ref:1283409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_P

I agree with you about mid-season rule changes. I've only been following F1 since 98 or 99, what was the pre-1996 qualifying format?

Had a first qualifying session on the Friday aswell. Fastest time from both sessions was the one used. Was alright if you weren't working on the Friday and had Eurosport.

Also it put more focus on working on a good qualifying set-up over the entire weekend, a bad first session/crash etc. could be resolved by the next day

Inigo Montoya · 20 Apr 2005, 23:02 (Ref:1283423)

Though I don't like the current qualifying system, it is silly to change it midseason. At this rate, pretty soon, the teams will be voting after every race for the rules for the following race.

Pitstop · 20 Apr 2005, 23:17 (Ref:1283433)

I have not been a fan of the present qualifying system since it started. I no longer watch Saturday quallies, waste of time - and the pre race 2nd qually is just not enough. I turn my tV on at about 12.45pm on a Sunday now.

I understand and can cope with adding the two sessions together, but all the excitement has gone out of quallifying for a race, if one cannot see them both in 'full flow' on the same day.

And don't forget folks - BE is probably loosing money on this and, we can't have that now can we!

The sooner this is scrapped, the better.

I don't care what method they use - just use it on a Saturday, please.

Rant over.

thejester · 20 Apr 2005, 23:23 (Ref:1283436)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Though I don't like the current qualifying system, it is silly to change it midseason. At this rate, pretty soon, the teams will be voting after every race for the rules for the following race.

Exactly!

Changing rules mid-season makes the whole thing seem like a mickey mouse operation. From a selfish point of view, the qualli rules don't make much difference to me as we get no qualifying coverage whatsoever.

I know! Sux to be us.

JeremySmith · 21 Apr 2005, 00:32 (Ref:1283464)

Great Bernie please do it now....One session of one hour 12 laps on Saturday, thank you very much..

Marbot · 21 Apr 2005, 00:42 (Ref:1283467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Great Bernie please do it now....One session of one hour 12 laps on Saturday, thank you very much..

Don't hold your breath JS.All the teams have to agree for a start.Unlikely according to www.grandprix.com

JeremySmith · 21 Apr 2005, 00:50 (Ref:1283471)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Don't hold your breath JS.All the teams have to agree for a start.Unlikely according to www.grandprix.com

Right Martyn I just read it..

Dixie Flatline · 21 Apr 2005, 03:27 (Ref:1283509)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Great Bernie please do it now....One session of one hour 12 laps on Saturday, thank you very much..

Said it before, say it again, it's highly unlikely that one of the minnow teams (eg. Minardi, Jordan, perhaps Sauber given their sponsorship portfolio has significantly dwindled) will agree to returning to this system, because under the one-lap dash system, they get guaranteed coverage for at least one lap, uninterrupted by any other car on the track. Going back to the old system will almost guarantee that unless they are the only car on the track, they will not be broadcast, as everyone will concentrate on the frontrunning cars. No TV exposure = no sponsorship exposure = less sponsors = less money in the budget.

Pingguest · 21 Apr 2005, 07:59 (Ref:1283592)

Just a 60 minutes qualifying session without any limit of laps, engines and tyres.

Marbot · 21 Apr 2005, 08:18 (Ref:1283608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Just a 60 minutes qualifying session without any limit of laps, engines and tyres.

Then we are back to,qually cars with qually tyres and qually engines.A very expensive way to get your car to the front of the grid.And if it rains........

Dani Filth · 21 Apr 2005, 09:58 (Ref:1283687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Had a first qualifying session on the Friday aswell. Fastest time from both sessions was the one used. Was alright if you weren't working on the Friday and had Eurosport.

i skipped a lot of classes for them

i would do it again

**chunterer** · 21 Apr 2005, 10:30 (Ref:1283714)

I liked the old qualy 1 and qualy 2 as well.

Current format is alright though isn't it? I mean if one team is dominating (heaven forbid that was ever to happen!) then at some races it's gonna get mixed up like in Melbourne for example?

Brundle thinks that it should revert to older format because the cars can't overtake thanks to the new regs! so it should go in order of outright car performance!

BootsOntheSide · 21 Apr 2005, 10:40 (Ref:1283726)

Changing the system for when it rains is essential in my view - Melbourne was a farce which meant nothing because of it. At least under a set-length session with all the cars on the track a driver can choose when he runs to maximise his chances within the weather - there's an element of luck but it doesn't dominate proceedings the way the one-shot system does in the wet.

Most of the changes people have suggested are far too drastic to make midseason, as they depend on overturning a lot of other rules, such as engine and Parc Fermé restrictions. Any kind of mideason change should only be made if it's really neccessary. Running the two sessions back-to-back on Saturday, with Q2 shown live in the UK and elsewhere, would make sense - the scheduling was a disaster all along.

**chunterer** · 21 Apr 2005, 10:44 (Ref:1283730)

Good point, the lack of Q2 coverage needs to be the main reason for a change....

Pingguest · 21 Apr 2005, 17:43 (Ref:1283981)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Then we are back to,qually cars with qually tyres and qually engines.A very expensive way to get your car to the front of the grid.And if it rains........

If teams want to waste their money on it, it's their own responsibility.

Marbot · 21 Apr 2005, 18:39 (Ref:1284018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

If teams want to waste their money on it, it's their own responsibility.

So if F1 is all about finding the fastest car,why bother with the race.The fastest car will be P1 in qually.The race car will be something completely different.

Pingguest · 21 Apr 2005, 18:43 (Ref:1284022)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

So if F1 is all about finding the fastest car,why bother with the race.The fastest car will be P1 in qually.The race car will be something completely different.

Well, standing on pole doesn't mean anything if teams don't invest in their race pace. That will mean that teams will have to make choices.

Dog Faced Boy · 21 Apr 2005, 18:58 (Ref:1284040)

I agree that nothing should be changed this season. Perhaps aswell a move back to a simpler 12 lap Saturday Quali, just with 4 runs of 3 laps forced to be taken every 15 mins. At the end of the day PS has got a big enough gob to make his own publicity and exposure. EJ never had a problem.

Alternatively we could adopt a Formula Ford Festival Style Setup and have lots of mini races over Friday and Saturday to decide the grid for the main race on Sunday.

As for coverage of Q2 in Britain, I can't for the life of me understand how ITV can't find space in their threadbare ITV2 schedule for it.

Marbot · 21 Apr 2005, 19:27 (Ref:1284069)

Qually should be changed immediately,like on Saturday.What we have at the moment doesn't make any sense at all,nobody likes it,why wait till next year,do it now!

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