Electronic timing

[Onlooker]

Racetime perhaps you may hold the answer to this question

How the hell does the Saftey Car cause so much confusion in the V8's.I have a reasonable idea of the way the system works and watch the races on the Playstation Timing deal through Avesco and it defys me how it causes continual confusion?

[Flaggie]

Doesn't help when the timing loop goes phut, like it did once. But Racey probably knows more about that.

[elephino]

It's not the SC that causes the problem but the people sending it out. Doesn't help when it tries to pick up the leader instead of just going out on the track. I think it was the first deployment at OP that it took something like 2 laps before I saw it on track after the SC boards came out.

[Rhys_00]

what i dont understand is where do they draw the line, i think i understand everything else but safety cars, do they always pick up at the leader or do they sometimes catch backmarkers in front e.g. between skaife and the safety car? it confuses me every time

[RaceTime]

Flaggie - what timing loop went phut and where?

I think I have said elsewhere on this forum about the deployment of the safety car - but bear with me and will go over it anyway.

Bear in mind that this comes from experience and NOT the way rules are read, bent, mis-interpreted and then spun dry to resemble something entirely different.

The purpose of the safety car is to bring the field of racing cars under control so that the 'situation' can be handled *safely*.....that is it's PRIME purpose in life.

Now - how it is deployed is the bone of contention.

Unfortunately certain CAMS officials have got it in their head that when the safety car goes out it MUST pick up the leader, and this is where the main problem is because sometimes the leader is NOT clearly identified (Canberra for example where the leader was coming INTO pit lane as the safety car was going out).

So - what should happen?

The safety car should go out IMMEDIATELY it is called for - pick up the FIRST car it goes out in front of - regardless of WHAT position that car is in - and let the field bunch up behind it - IOW - get the field under control.

This is how we handled it with NASCAR/AUSCAR at the Thunderdome and it worked....

This allows two things to happen - the safety car gets the field under control and guides them for at least one lap, more likely two laps at the same time allowing all resources to be placed where they are needed at this time - with the incident that called for the safety car.

Once the incident is under control (might happen within 30 seconds, might take 4-5 laps) THEN the safety car can start letting cars through until he has the RACE LEADER immediately behind him - remember that once the safety car goes out NO PASSING WHATSOEVER in the train behind the SC.

Allow 1-2 laps for this process and the cars to get right around - slow the field up if necessary to let them catch the tail end of the field - before any consideration is given to calling the SC back in.

Doing it this way you preserve the positions of ALL cars on the track - no 'But he's a lap down on me' type thinking....they stay in the SAME track and race position they were in immediately the SC was called (if you think about it - if you then work back through the cars behind the SC you will find outright positions 1 to whatever (those cars on the same lap) in order behind the SC - intermingled with these, however, will be cars that are DOWN one or more laps...

Does this make sense? It does to me, but obviously not to race control who do not appear to be able to understand this simple line of thinking.

One other thing that CAMS would do well to adopt from NASCAR and CART SC rules is the closure of pit lane to all but emergency traffic for the first two laps of ANY SC period.

Now the original question - there have been two problems with time lines and SC's.

One is caused by race control not understanding the above.

The second happened at Barbagallo Raceway at this years V8's and has been known about with the electronic system now since around 1992 - BEFORE it was introduced to CAMS racing ie at the Thunderdome.

If you place a DATA-1 transmitter directly over or within approx 60 cm of a time line, that timeline will, if the vehicle is not moved within about 60 seconds, cause the complete stoppage and ultimately the complete failure of the DATA-1 system. Dorian have been aware of this problem since 1992 both in writing and having it physically demonstrated to them (ie the past4 owners were all aware of it).

Once the transmitter is moved off the line the timing system sees a literal flood of data come in - mostly out of time sequence) and unless the software has been written to accomodate this it can cause a catastrohic software failure. It can also, however, be worked around IF the operators know what to look for - at Barbagallo, the local timekeepers knew of the problem (it has happened to them numerous times primarily by Formula Vee's - the biggest culprits because of the location of their transmitters) however I have been informed the AVESCO timekeeper(s) either wouldn't listen or couldn't comprehend what was happened - thus the SC stuff up in WA this year!

[Flaggie]

I was referring to what happened at Barbagello, Racey...

[RaceTime]

Ahhh OK no problems - think I covered that in the novel above <g>
Just that I am also trying to find out why the Vic State Championship used manual timing on Saturday at Sandown until about 1pm and why no Formula Vee qualifying times or race 1 informaiton is available - seems like they had a major timing system failure at Sandown as well....

[Flaggie]

Timing hassle indeed. The FV race on Saturday was changed to a Qual session cause they werent timed at all in the first session on Saturday, as I understand it.

[RaceTime]

Ahhh thanks - helps explain a bit more. I had one competitor drop his transmitter back to me this afternoon and he said they were told on Sunday morning to 'expect long delays in results being issued' - no reason why given though.

Considering this is the same group who had a major drama at last years Six Hour Relay and NO results have been made available at all for that event...makes me wonder sometimes (and in case anyone is thinking it - yes I am happy to debate to operation and maintenance of the electronic timing system anytime with people that know what htye are doing)