What will touring car racing look like in 10 years? - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

Speed-King · 14 Oct 2011, 13:58

Touring Car Racing as we have known it for the last 20 years is dead. Alright, not completely, but the end of the 2l-era seems to be at hand. And not just because of changing engine sizes, it is also the tradition of racing not the top of the line models of a manufacturers range, but the (in road trim) rather pedestrian grocery-getter hatchbacks and rep-mobile sedans that seems to be on the way out.

Yes, there still are two rulesets in this spirit (S2000 and NGTC), but as it appears right now, both of them will become insular one-series rulesets - and at least in the case of S2000 this might not be survivable in the long run.

Things in Sweden don't look particularly promising for NGTC, and a number of other countries that used to have an SuperTouring or S2000 series have abandoned the idea and moved to other rulesets, be it the Superstars in Italy, Camaro Cup in Denmark or the whole-sale abandonment of touring car racing in favour of a highly professional and well-subscribed GT-series as it happened in France and to a degree in Germany, where the succes of the ADAC GT-Masters has reduced Procar to a mere shadow of itself in terms of importance as well as in terms of participants, with several teams and drivers abandoning their touring car plans to go GT-racing (E.g. YACO will race in GT-Masters next year).

Touring Cars are becoming an endangered species in the European racing landscape. Yes, BTCC will survive just fine with the NGTC-regs, but we might very well end up in a reverse 1980s kind of situation on the Continent. Back then, Touring Cars were king and GT-racing non-existant, now it appears like top-level Touring Car Racing might go extinct, with GTs and Silhouettes being the wave of the future.

The question is, then, if and how touring car racing can rebound from this dire situation, will we be stuck with silhouettes for years to come or is there still a chance for a renaissance of real touring car racing?

iceman-1987 · 14 Oct 2011, 18:35

difficult to reply!
wtcc has born in 2005 and still exists and still continue to increase number of fans in the circuit and on tv!!
in my opinion wtcc should make the rules and each national championship should follow the rules made by wtcc!!
in this way it could possible to a priveteer or also to a official manufacture to compete in more than 1 champioship without problems of homologation and so on!

about manufacture problem i dont think its just a problem of wtcc!! in le mans series there are just audi and peugeot, in wrc there are just citroen ford and now mini! in f1 there are just ferrari mercedes renault cosworth (and this one i dont know for how long will continue)!

anyway some years ago didnt exist world touring car championship so now if a manufacture decide to enter in touring series most of the time it's come in wtcc!!
i repeat my idea would be to homologate the same rules to each touring series following the rules made by the queen of touring series (wtcc)!
in this way official driver could compete in wtcc and indipendent driver could compete in 1 or more championship and in wtcc too!

Sodemo · 14 Oct 2011, 19:08

There needs to be one ruleset for the common touring car. Its foolish to have all these different rules, no one wins in this situation.

For me, the "must haves" are this:

- 18"-19" wheels
- 350-400BHP
- Mainly a "saloon" series
- Cars must be loud
- Tyres must be soft enough for RWD to have some benefit

AndySpeed · 14 Oct 2011, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

For me, the "must haves" are this:

- 18"-19" wheels
- 350-400BHP
- Mainly a "saloon" series
- Cars must be loud
- Tyres must be soft enough for RWD to have some benefit

So... DTM with softer tyres? Or should you also include:

- Based on production cars

...?

Sodemo · 14 Oct 2011, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

So... DTM with softer tyres? Or should you also include:

- Based on production cars

...?

Nah, don't really want a DTM-lite series. Thats what that TTA thing in Sweden is all about. I think thats the wrong direction really. No it must be road-shell based and stick to the road car layout (largely). Wider arches and bigger bumpers I would allow.

Speed-King · 14 Oct 2011, 20:42

However, that doesn't seem to be the way anybody except Superstars is interested in right now... Silhouettes really appear to be the wave of the future. Mostly because they are hell of a lot cheaper to built and run than current unibody cars. The question is then, how to make unibody cars cheaper yet spectacular?

Sodemo · 14 Oct 2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

However, that doesn't seem to be the way anybody except Superstars is interested in right now... Silhouettes really appear to be the wave of the future. Mostly because they are hell of a lot cheaper to built and run than current unibody cars. The question is then, how to make unibody cars cheaper yet spectacular?

How are silhouettes cheaper? Is a DTM car more expensive than say an S2000 or NGTC touring car? I really dont know...?

iceman-1987 · 15 Oct 2011, 08:45

the key of the success of STW BTCC and other touring series in years '90 was that people saw car nearly similar to car that they use!!

my ideal rules would be:
engine 2.0 turbo and 330HP
tires 19"
freedom to use front or rear wheel drives or AWD
1 model of car decided by FIA for each manufacture who wanna compete in touring series! i mean i find ridiculous that bmw 320 should compete against with seat leon! they belong to 2 different segement! seat should use a berlin in wtcc not the leon that its just a little more than a city car!only berlin cars! seat should use EXEO and volvo the S40 (that moreover has a great past in wtcc)

Wheels of Fire · 15 Oct 2011, 13:33

the future of touring car races it's called Superstars International Series... (I hope!)

iceman-1987 · 15 Oct 2011, 14:52

superstars series??? 30 cars starting and more or less 15 arrives to the end! no rules about engine about cylindrate!!
comone superstars series should be a championship for amateurs not for professionist!

Wheels of Fire · 15 Oct 2011, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman-1987

superstars series??? 30 cars starting and more or less 15 arrives to the end!

So?

retrognome · 23 Oct 2011, 17:16

You ask where it will be in ten years time? Surely a round in some historic championship

Speed-King · 23 Oct 2011, 18:15

Quote:

I am not sure if this is with the engine, if not you have to add an extra €10,000.

Probably more like 20.000 for that engine, seeing that the Camaro-Cup engines with 100 hp less come in at around 20.000 US-$, but it's still peanuts compared to the crazy expensive 2l mills we have right now.

**FIRE** · 24 Oct 2011, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Probably more like 20.000 for that engine, seeing that the Camaro-Cup engines with 100 hp less come in at around 20.000 US-$, but it's still peanuts compared to the crazy expensive 2l mills we have right now.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/LS7-...98-P930C2.aspx