breaking old ties

[Bodysnatcher]

Thinking about things at Brands, and something said a while ago.

Originally Posted by Peter Harding

Most clubs will represent you for grading etc. if you are on their marshal's register and don't worry if you aren't a member.

I think I'll be dropping my primary club membership and just continue with BMMC unless somebody can convince me otherwise. I just hope the my primary club will have as enlightened a view as 750.
This decision hurts, cos my primary is the BRSCC, the club I came into marshalling with back in 89. We've had fun together for many years, I even made marshal of the year some time back, but it looks like we're drifting apart.

I still wait to hear officially what the BRSCC will be doing at Brands in 2006 - a year that looks to be the best at Brands since say 1989 (GpC and F3000).
However, looking at the provisional time table on the BRSCC SE website, it appears that they'll only be running 4 meetings of their own and at the mo, providing help with 3 others.

Of those four I'm on holiday for two, so at most I can earn £5 off my 2007 membership. As it is I'm only on £8 off this years renewal - So I'm I'll be paying £22 to attend a maximum 5 race days - bit steep.
You could tell me about the free entry to Autospurts at the NEC - but to be honest static cars and sweaty crowds do nothing for me, and I gave up going about 5 years ago.

Providing for other clubs is another issue altogether. Who profits more from the association, me or the club?

What else - oh aye, I could marshal for the BRSCC at other circuits - but I've no need, as I said earlier 2006 looks like it'll be a very juicy year at Brands and I'm only a couple of minutes away.

Lets be honest, I've about had it with the proliferation of clubs, each running their own marshal's lists/membership costs. Why cannot marshals belong solely to BMMC (or some de novo MSA approved central body)? Then just pick and choose according to our likes/dislikes from a central list such as Julian's.

The current count at Brands is that we have 9 different car clubs lined up to have race meetings (the biggies WTCC/DTM/A1GP yet to be allocated according to BRSCC site, so possibly a 10th organisation ?MSV). So far this year I've only heard from BARC & 750, OK I know I moved, but that's 4 clubs I have to go and try to get in contact with (or make my BMMC rep do it). And we wonder why it's difficult to get and retain sufficient marshals? Could it be more compex if we tried?

[Stephen Green]

I'm in the same position, after being a member of the BRSCC for 20 years I have not renewed this year, by and large for the same reasons as Alistair. You will need to speak to the MSA and ask them to change your primary club to the BMMC, just call Allan Dean-Lewis who is really helpful.

I was saying to a friend a few weeks ago that when I started marshalling at BH 20 years ago, the BRSCC were 'the' club to organise race meetings. Of course we had the great John Nicol back then, a sad loss to the world of motorsport. These days it has changed a great deal with BARC organising more and more meetings, and if you do enough days marshalling you not only cover the cost of membership, but get a cheque back in the post!

I suppose it's also worth saying that 20 years ago there wasn't the shortage of marshals there is now, and if you wanted to marshal the FFF then it was almost mandatory to be a BRSCC member. Not so these days.

I find the current lack of communication both annoying and distressing and wonder what has happened within the club for there to be such sudden changes?

[Tim Falce]

Sorry but while on the subject of the BRSCC, how would my friend get his grading/signature card (not sure of the correct term) back from Mr Sillytoes, he's had it for the best part of a year and done nothing with it. He doesn't return calls and seems pretty elusive.

[Stephen Green]

If you are referring to Roger, then ask him to speak to me at the first meeting and I will get it sorted for him.

[Tim Falce]

Thanks Stephen.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Lets be honest, I've about had it with the proliferation of clubs, each running their own marshal's lists/membership costs. Why cannot marshals belong solely to BMMC (or some de novo MSA approved central body)? Then just pick and choose according to our likes/dislikes from a central list such as Julian's.

I'm only a member of one club, BMMC. Last year I marshalled for 14 different clubs, at four different circuits (a lower number of circuits than usual, for various reasons). At two of them, Oulton Park & Anglesey, as, for every meeting at those two circuits, whatever club runs them, only one volunteering form is required. The same applies to Croft, probably other circuits.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

. At two of them, Oulton Park & Anglesey, as, for every meeting at those two circuits, whatever club runs them, only one volunteering form is required. The same applies to Croft, probably other circuits.

That's a start - one circuit - one form.

As Stephen has said, for a large number of us our loyalty is firstly to circuit and then to club.

So Dave, how exactly does it work at these circuits? (noting that it seems to be done for Oulton, so why not other MSV circuits?)

Presumably, there's a hard working volunteer member of one club or another taking this in hand and passing on details as required to the various clubs. If this is the case then I sincerely applaud their efforts.

but, I guess what I'd rather see is an employee of the circuit (someone like our pal Archaic Gold) dealing with it, because in the end it's the circuit's ability to provide a service for their customers (the race clubs) that keeps them in business. I heard JP was trying to do something like this...stands to reason really.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

That's a start - one circuit - one form.

As Stephen has said, for a large number of us our loyalty is firstly to circuit and then to club.

So Dave, how exactly does it work at these circuits? (noting that it seems to be done for Oulton, so why not other MSV circuits?)

Presumably, there's a hard working volunteer member of one club or another taking this in hand and passing on details as required to the various clubs. If this is the case then I sincerely applaud their efforts.

but, I guess what I'd rather see is an employee of the circuit (someone like our pal Archaic Gold) dealing with it, because in the end it's the circuit's ability to provide a service for their customers (the race clubs) that keeps them in business. I heard JP was trying to do something like this...stands to reason really.

On the contrary, I would much rather that someone did it as a volunteer. That way they are free to represent the views of their constituents to the circuit without any conflict of interest.

Regards

Jim

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by JimW

On the contrary, I would much rather that someone did it as a volunteer. That way they are free to represent the views of their constituents to the circuit without any conflict of interest.

Regards

Jim

right back at you..
Jim, the problem with some volunteers at the moment is that they have vested interests or prejudices.

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by JimW

On the contrary, I would much rather that someone did it as a volunteer. That way they are free to represent the views of their constituents to the circuit without any conflict of interest.

Regards

Jim

I totally agree! At times I tread a very fine line between my part-time employment with MSV, and my responsibilities to the BMMC and volunteer Marshals in general. I must add that Mildred does a wonderful job, and works tirelessly for all those Clubs that promote meetings at Brands Hatch. I am sue she does not have a problem officiating in this way!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

That's a start - one circuit - one form.

TWO circuits, one form!

So Dave, how exactly does it work at these circuits?

In a word, it works very well.....oops, that's two words.

Presumably, there's a hard working volunteer member of one club or another taking this in hand and passing on details as required to the various clubs. If this is the case then I sincerely applaud their efforts.

The volunteering from is compiled by BRSCC NW's own Alistair Garrett, & returned to BMMC's Dave Cleavely. Such systems, & the Oulton/Anglesey one isn't unique, just the one I know best, have a lot of advantages for everybody. There are nine different clubs organising race meetings at the two circuits this year; for the individual marshal, it's a lot easier to fill in one form than eight; for the chief marshals of the various clubs it's a lot fewer forms to process.

but, I guess what I'd rather see is an employee of the circuit (someone like our pal Archaic Gold) dealing with it, because in the end it's the circuit's ability to provide a service for their customers (the race clubs) that keeps them in business. I heard JP was trying to do something like this...stands to reason really.

I think that should be left to the clubs; certainly, with respect to Oulton, it ain't broke......let's not try to fix it.

As Pete Harding has said, there's a very strong BMMC presence at Oulton - I stand to be corrected on this, but I think all the Oulton 'regulars' are BMMC members - but the important point here is that, irrespective of club membership, everybody works together.

[Gordon Knight]

Well said Dave.
It is only when you read of problems experienced elsewhere, as illustrated
in this thread, that you realise what fantastic service we have had at
Oulton Park & Anglesey.
It is all too easy to take things for granted, so may I pay tribute to the
sterling work by Alistair Garrett, Margaret Simpson, Steve Brooks, & Dave Cleavely in making volunteering such a painless process.

[Eddy V]

I've never really understood the high membership fees or all the different clubs you can / may / must join in the UK. We (Belgium) pay 10 € (6,5 Pound) for our MSA license. That is it, no extra costs, no other clubs to join. There is just the national MSA to join and you are allowed to marshal at both (!) tracks.

Why should I pay money to get a refund / discount at a D&D? Doesn't make any sense to me, to be honest. I'm there to marshal and have some fun. If I want to do a D&D, I wouldn't mind paying for it.
I more than understand the problems that have been mentioned here, so I guess I'd do the same thing.

I must stress that in my case BRSCC and others ( ) treated me very well all these years.

But maybe that is because I'm just a bit

[johngee]

I can associate with almost every word that Stephen has written. It saddens me greatly not to continue my membership of the BRSCC and although I stopped marshalling and clerking for them 6 years ago, I still have a lot of friends amongst the the regulars at Brands.
Both the HSCC and 750MC have 3 meetings each at Brands in 2006. The HSCC office at Silverstone or Peter Harding at 750MC would be delighted to hear from anybody who would like to come along to our meetings and I hope we can regenerate some of the old Brands Hatch spirit.

[gwar]

When i started marshalling 5-6 years ago....i was a spectator in the crowd and wanted to marshall so i asked a few marshalls as to which club to join and got 4-5 different clubs......help
Its very difficult when you first start marshalling...and would have been a lot easier if there was one club for marshalls across the uk.
I joined BARC, just because one of marshalls who i spoke to was also a member and he came from my neck of the woods.
BARC have allways been good for me, but proberly wont join next year, for one reason only; we,ve allways been welcomed with open arms by any club......and thats just by phoneing the organising club or voluntering on-line (of which ten-tenths is brilliant for...thankyou)

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by gwar

Its very difficult when you first start marshalling...and would have been a lot easier if there was one club for marshalls across the uk.

There is....BMMC! (Cheque to my Swiss bank account, please, Stephen!)

[Stoowert]

It looks like I'm not the only one backing out of paying the BRSCC £30 for the honour of helping them run race meetings, Oh and make money on the day.
It realy saddens me because like nearly everyone who has contributed, I joined the BRSCC in the 80's as they were the best organised club going. They stood head & shoulders above the others that I marshalled for at that time. Not now! AMOC, MGCC, 750, HSCC, yes even BARC really look as if they are pleased to see you and know how to run a tight ship! The funny thing is the BRSCC Chiefs help run a number of the other club's meetings at Brands. Maybe it's the product!

[DavidBritainUK]

I'm afraid I can only agree with Alistair, Steven and Stoowert. I started with the BRSCC back at Brands in the 80s. It was the club to be with...........but perhaps not now. I will not be renewing this year.

Looking at the listings, it may well be the best year since the 80s. So, I will still be marshaling at Brands, just not contributing to the BRSCC.

See you around the track somewhere!

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by DavidBritainUK

I'm afraid I can only agree with Alistair, Steven and Stoowert. I started with the BRSCC back at Brands in the 80s. It was the club to be with...........but perhaps not now. I will not be renewing this year.

Looking at the listings, it may well be the best year since the 80s. So, I will still be marshaling at Brands, just not contributing to the BRSCC.

See you around the track somewhere!

But will they be run by the BRSCC you have to ask yourself?

[DavidBritainUK]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

But will they be run by the BRSCC you have to ask yourself?

They might, but that will be my choice. As Stoowert pointed out, many of the 'Other' club meetings are run by the BRSCC 'Front-Team'. I look back with a little sadness, but forward to a good racing season.

[Stephen Green]

On its way David

[archaic gold]

I have to agree with alot that was said by other "ten-tenthers"! Since 1966 my primary Circuit was Silverstone, and I eventually Clerked for the BRDC for over a year; !!!!
However, my daughter whom you all know well, said "lets join the BRSCC as they put on some fantastic meetings at Brands, and it is a lot nearer Essex. (not a F1 Test Circuit either) so we did. I have continued to assist the BRSCC (SE) wherever possible in my other employment (buses for the A1GP etc) but not able to actively Observe so much.
However, the crunch point - £28 a year (2005) to Marshal when I am free?? I think not, so, as others, I did not renew my Membership for 2006- Sorry, Guys (and Girls, especially!!)

[brickkicker]

I dont think this is just an isolated thing. Members must be leaving all clubs in higher quantites. I have left the BMMC this year and dont plan on joining any club as to be honest I dont see the point. I can still marshal, and it doesnt make me any better or worse at it if im a member of a club.

[EvilPumpkin]

One thing to add - we've been going to Brands for a few years now and the folks from the BRSCC Marshals have always been absolutely wonderful to us. I'm not going to name any names in case I leave someone out, but they've always taken great care of us and that - along with the great racing and friends we've made - is the reason we keep going back.

I'm very sorry to hear they're having problems and hope that they'll all be sorted out soon.

[The Fat Clerk]

Blimey, I thought I was in a minority of 1, I'd already decided not to renew in May when it's my turn, looks like i wont be` alone.
I'm still in the BMMC, BRDC MC & 750MC so don't think I'll be missing out on much.