Aus GP Marshals? - 10-Tenths Motorsport Forum

deadsquirrel · 3 Apr 2006, 06:58

Was I the only one who saw a marshal cross the track at the end of the GP with a bottle to attend to JB's Honda, and another standing trackside (wrong side) fiddling with a bottle, looking like with intention to cross the track?

It WAS early, and I may be mistaken, but if it WAS what occurred, WHY? There's marshals all along the pitwall for such events, and surely marshals know never to cross the track with a bottle?

rescue dude · 3 Apr 2006, 07:01

We had this conversation at Loton and as i said then i was quite shocked at what i saw.

PVDA · 3 Apr 2006, 09:06

I saw it live from T16 and thought the same thing but you need to remember that the number of motorsport experienced firies is suplimented by professional & volunteer fire fighters who may only do the F1GP. It could've been as simple as a rush of blood to the head but it NOT standard procedure to cross a hot track down here.

I also noticed several people in pit lane uniforms out on the track during the clean up for Shuey's off.

Actually the one thing that they probably should investigate is a couple of vehicle based track cleaning flying squads who can turn out under SC to clean up a big mess quickly using blowers and then dive off the track at the next gap in the fence, kind of like the Safety Teams in US based series operate.

1200Datto27 · 3 Apr 2006, 09:44

You did indeed see that. The reason that the pitlane officials didn't attend the fire is that the lap prior to the chequered flag being shown, the access holes in the pitlane fencing are closed to prevent spectators from having access to the pits post race.

The marshall had actually waited till the course car had gone past prior to crossing the track (occured in front of me)

Grandslammer · 3 Apr 2006, 10:26

From what I can see on the replay , the Marshal is crossing the track,with F1 cars still coming out of the final corner,not sure where the course car could have been

.
Persons can be seen,leaning through at least two gaps in the pitwall fencing and a Pit Marshal can be seen running towards Buttons car from the rear ,as the Marshal is crossing.

1200Datto27 · 3 Apr 2006, 11:16

The F1 (merc, not the BMW) went under where I was at pit exit at the same time the marshall crossed the track, and I can't recall having any other cars other than the BMW course car pass where I was at the time.

I didn't have a view along the fence line as I was on the pit side of the track, but from marshalling there last year the timesheets called for the boards to be up at the start of the last lap, and where I could see them, they where in place at the time.

The marshall coming up from behind quite possibly came from pit entry, which remains open to allow the cars entry.

**Woolley** · 3 Apr 2006, 11:22

So, to sum up, the marshals who ought to have attended were prevented from doing so safely by an organising decision, albeit one that is understandable. However, we're always told not to relax until the circuit is clear, so perhaps this decision needs reviewing?

The marshal crossing the track is faced with an unenviable decision. The car is on fire, the marshals over there can't get to it. He was very hesitant and clearly watching carefully, and appeared aware of the consequences. I'd say he couldn't win whatever he did (imagine the "where were the marshals?" threads if he hadn't attended) and managed the impossible choice with as much care as possible. What it highlights is that once again, GP organizers have no idea about marshalling and make the job unnecesarily difficult before either exposing the marshals to criticism, or worse, doing it themselves.

rescue dude · 3 Apr 2006, 11:52

Let it burn!!!

Does the name Tom Pryce mean anything.

**Woolley** · 3 Apr 2006, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by rescue dude

Let it burn!!!

Does the name Tom Pryce mean anything.

Absolutely, two marshals rushing headlong across the track while the pack is coming, but valid comparison nevertheless, and the reason it's heavily frowned upon, to say the least. And I'm not saying I would have made the same decision as the Melbourne marshal, just pointing out the circumstances that he was faced with. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There is also the defence that he was very, very careful about it, but I was still watching the pictures and saying "Noooo, don't, please - you don't want to do that..."

I also note PVDA's post. Marshalling structures down there are different from here, and we don't know whetehr he was a regular motorsport firie or not. If not, he may well not be so aware of the seriousness of that action. Above all, he shouldn't have been put in that situation in the first place.

PVDA · 4 Apr 2006, 01:50

A bit more info on Course Cars at Albert Park.

There's two BMW's (Course 1 & 2), Course 1 does the normal opening & closing and two is the report pick up & taxi for the majority of the meeting.

Course 1 is parked at 16.2 (pit entry) during the GP and Course 2 somewhere halfway around the circuit and they both being openning the track once the last car running passes them.

For some reason one of the Merc's does a lap at the end of the race as well??

I cant remember if the firie crossed before or after Course 1 passed him or not but if it had passed him then all is good as no race cars should be behind the course car (in theory) but that has still shown up a problem with the access holes which will hopefully be picked up by the organisers & CAMS/FIA for next year.

Should I mention one of the cars ran out of fuel during an FIA inspection on Saturday

Tim Schenken was handed a jerry can during the Sunday morning officials briefing to have with him for the pre GP inspection just in case

JABWOA · 4 Apr 2006, 04:11

Aparently the two firies were spoken to after the event (handshake or buttkicking unknown but sounded like the latter.) I was flagging from 0.2L (pit exit) and I couldn't tell you if they crossed before the course car as I was helping organise our equipment and personnel from the immenant track invasion (we all got out okay) thanks to a surprisingly very well behaved spectators (waited for us to evacuate the point before stampeding.)

scorch · 4 Apr 2006, 07:53

Ahhh the age old question on wether to cross the track or not.

And here's my 2p worth. I thought both the marshalls in question did an execellent job and made a good judgement...

From what i saw the 1st decided that he needed to cross to put the fire out, then he was checking to see if he had time to cross and he did so off he went. the 2nd guy also was checking for traffic and also seeing if he was needed, The camera panned away at that point so i don't know if he did actually go over and backup the other marshall.

I think this should be used in training marshalls, as it does show there is a time and place to cross the circuit, and what you have to be aware off.

rescue dude · 4 Apr 2006, 08:24

I think your missing the point, and that is that you should NEVER have to cross a live track.

By doing so you put your life and that of the driver's in danger.

scorch · 4 Apr 2006, 11:56

[QUOTE=rescue dude]I think your missing the point, and that is that you should NEVER have to cross a live track.QUOTE]

Nope the point I was making was that you can and sometimes it is necessary to cross a live race circuit. BUT it has to be last resort AND awareness of what is going on is the key.

If i was talking to a trainee I would say never cross a live race circuit but for an experenced marshall who can see far enough up the circuit to allow sufficient time to cross, and there is a need to cross ie fire, unconsious driver then I see no problem with it. From the TV pictures I though both marshalls showed both these qulaities.

Hepatic · 4 Apr 2006, 17:38

[QUOTE=scorch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rescue dude

I think your missing the point, and that is that you should NEVER have to cross a live track.QUOTE]

Nope the point I was making was that you can and sometimes it is necessary to cross a live race circuit. BUT it has to be last resort AND awareness of what is going on is the key.

If i was talking to a trainee I would say never cross a live race circuit but for an experenced marshall who can see far enough up the circuit to allow sufficient time to cross, and there is a need to cross ie fire, unconsious driver then I see no problem with it. From the TV pictures I though both marshalls showed both these qulaities.

I agree with Wooley here, the guy's actions would have been the subject of debate no matter what he did, but unless a drivers life was in danger no one should have to cross a live track. It was definately live too, it was a bit before the start finish line which means the course car coming out of pit exit would have been nowhere near closing the track at that point. It would only have taken a trip to have made that in to headline news for all the wrong reasons....

Button was out of the car and well away from it, frankly i'd have let it burn until someone could get there safely from the pit side or the last car had passed (which it hadn't). Yeah, they did seem very careful about it, but all the same i wouldn't have bothered.

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