New customer Ferrari 550 engines

[tux]

prodrive and care racing have desinged new, user friendly engines for the ferrari 550 race cars

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/240746/49/

could this mean some more people might enter fia gt or le mans series with 550s?

[AU N EGL]

Would be great to have more Ferrari's at the races. But 4500 km before rebuild??? That is a long time for a high performane engine.

[JAG]

These type of electronically controlled engines could be the way to reduce GT1 costs dramatically and boost grids.

However, I can only see privateers adopting them, would the factory Corvette team agree?

If not, it's a no go for top level GT1 racing.

[AU N EGL]

IIRC Pratt & Miller use a programable Bosh ECM to opporate the LS7.r motor. They have used the Bosh since year two of the program.

We use the standard AC Delco Electronics ECM, which is also programble via flash, to boost power and torque. A great dyno tune can do wonders for the LSx motors.

[JAG]

But would they let the ACO inspect their engines and lock them at, say, 630bhp?

[Bob Riebe]

Any one want to bet, if NASCAR does allow fuel injection they will adapt such a system in the blinking of an eye.

This is a good way, in the US to make sure road racing sinks even farther.

This is somewhere between contrived competition and welfare state.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

But would they let the ACO inspect their engines and lock them at, say, 630bhp?

I would sure hope so. The AMs are about 600 BHP unrestricted

The Corvettes are serverly restricted to about 585 bhp and 605 tq. Without restrcitions the Corvette LS7.r motor is just north of 900 BHP and upper 800s in tq. Katech rebuilds the LS7.r motor after each event. Each motor is about $110,000 but not for sale to the public, only Chevy and teams that run the C6.r my purchase.

[Fogelhund]

Do they come with WiFi, so that the organizers can control the power from the pits, to ensure a good close race?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Do they come with WiFi, so that the organizers can control the power from the pits, to ensure a good close race?

Yes and no. Yes for the Teams to control, no for the race orgainzers to control.

I think if the race organizers did the controling that would be called NASCAR

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Yes and no. Yes for the Teams to control, no for the race orgainzers to control.

lol

I'd imagine it would be the other way around. In fact, two way telemetry is specifically forbidden under current rules, but I'm sure the ACO would make an exception if they were the ones given control...

[JAG]

Noticed on DSC they speculate this could be the way of the future.

Must admit, if the idea of restricotrs is to balance the power of iffering engine configerations, this could be an interesting way to do that.

[pitviper]

i should think that the AM's are more than 600 hp unrestricted... our Viper last year was well over 800 without the collars on...

pit

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by pitviper

i should think that the AM's are more than 600 hp unrestricted... our Viper last year was well over 800 without the collars on...

pit

Rated at 600 bhp for race trim.

[geeteeone]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Rated at 600 bhp for race trim.

Which is with air restrictors...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by pitviper

i should think that the AM's are more than 600 hp unrestricted... our Viper last year was well over 800 without the collars on...

pit

pit no dout that your viper is rated over 800. Rember the ACO and IMSA put air restrctions on the GT1 cars. ALso the ACO requires lap time to be with in a range, Any quicker and more restrctions are put on.

Un restrcited the GT1 cars, I would guess are just as fast as the P1 cars on long straights, Around 200 +/- MPH on long straights like the Musanne or the front staight on Road America, the two fastest staights.

[geeteeone]

With the air restrictors removed, the GT1 cars would be significantly faster in a straight line than a prototype with air restrictors.

Back in 2003, a Marcos LM600 ran unrestricted in the Spa 1000km (it was in the guest GT class and exempt from the need for restrictors). It was easily the fastest thing in a straight line, faster than all the prototypes.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by geeteeone

With the air restrictors removed, the GT1 cars would be significantly faster in a straight line than a prototype with air restrictors.

Not significantly fast, but very very close.

I think it was 2002 or 2003 on Musanne both classes where +/- 200 mph in sections.

Top Speed is great to look at but that is not the only part of racing. Relaibility and overall consistant speed are importatn factors.

Some one mentioned that winning is not going as fast as possible. Winning is going as slow as possible and staying infront of the #2 car.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Not significantly fast, but very very close.

I think it was 2002 or 2003 on Musanne both classes where +/- 200 mph in sections.

Top Speed is great to look at but that is not the only part of racing. Relaibility and overall consistant speed are importatn factors.

Some one mentioned that winning is not going as fast as possible. Winning is going as slow as possible and staying infront of the #2 car.

That is one reason I do like 80-100 mile sprint races; it is about going just as damn fast as you can for as long as you can, or as Satchel Paige once said: "Never look back, 'cause you never know what's gaining on you."

Bob

[geeteeone]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Not significantly fast, but very very close.

I think it was 2002 or 2003 on Musanne both classes where +/- 200 mph in sections.

You misunderstand - what I was saying is with an unrestricted GT1 against restricted prototypes, the GT1 cars would be quicker in a straight line (as happened at the 2003 Spa 1000km with the Marcos), due to the GT1 having a horsepower advantage. All things being equal, and with both classes running with restrictors, they are about the same due to similar horsepower, the only differences coming from the less sophisticated aerodynamics and extra weight of the GT1s.

With restrictors, both GT1 and LMP1 are running around 600-630 bhp. Unrestricted, this would be more like 750-800. As an example, the Lister Storm is known to run around 600bhp with it's restrictors. The engine is a development of the old Group C Jaguars, which regularly ran in excess of 700bhp back in the 80s (without any kind of air restrictor).

[ger80]

Why are the new engines that dont use a normal restrictor cheaper than the normal engines? The maximum power must be mostly the same. Is it so much easier to create the same amount of power with other valves etc if you dont have to use a restrictor?

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by ger80

Why are the new engines that dont use a normal restrictor cheaper than the normal engines? The maximum power must be mostly the same. Is it so much easier to create the same amount of power with other valves etc if you dont have to use a restrictor?

Because as long as the engine functions mainly on mechanical improvements, there are ways to cheat the system, i.e. special cylinder heads only factory Corvettes have.
How fast you go, depends entirely on how much money you want to spend before the laws of physics make it a dead-end street.

If the car is entirely limited electronically, unless you hire a computer hacker to out and out cheat, you are screwed, you will get no more power than the electronics say you can.

Both systems will NOT be allowed because the big buck boy will spend whatever it takes to stay in front, if they care enough to build a car, and the boys with the cheaper electronic cars will stay back, way back, in the also ran area.
Bob

[JAG]

Seems to be the case.

I could quite easily see teams being given the option to use restricors or electronic limiting once the system is perfected.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

Seems to be the case.

I could quite easily see teams being given the option to use restricors or electronic limiting once the system is perfected.

The scruteneers can use the vacuum test with the restrictors to test possible out put. Plus restrictors may be changed or rules changed at the event depeding of practice lap times.

Not every team uses the same electronic system. as in the Bosch Engine Managment system.

a few electronic systems can have multiple programs so the driver can just flip a switch or push a button to have a higher or lower out put.

Now they can only have a control of the fuel delevery, from "full lean to full rich"

[AU N EGL]

With many differnt cars, and power plants if gives so many differnt varriables to reach the same HP output.

The scrutineers are high technical ppl so they can catch every possible form of cheating there is.

the idea of "if it does not say it is illegal" they do it is not possible. If it is not written down in the rules then it is illegal.

Look at all the discussions and ideas here on the forum. Do we all agree on the same thing?? I bloody hope not, they it would not be any fun

[vorsprung]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

The scrutineers are high technical ppl so they can catch every possible form of cheating there is.

Illegal operations can easily be hidden in computer code if you have enough coders. That's way FIA allowed tc and launch control again in F1. The scrutineers could never find those strings of code from the engine management software.