Future and current technology discussion thread.

[TRuss]

Cost is not the only issue in determining the viability of new technologies. The governing bodies have to allow them first.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by TRuss

Cost is not the only issue in determining the viability of new technologies. The governing bodies have to allow them first.

The ACO has indicated in their proposed 2014 regulations that they want to encourage more new technologies that can be tested and evaluated under racing conditions which can then be transferred to road cars. I think we will begin to see a lot of new development of technologies like this... I hope. Should be interesting.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

One of questions about the KERS systems is how effective they are in normal driving situations? Is there enough high-energy braking to recharge the systems? I am thinking that a hybrid-hybrid system might be in order. This would couple the most efficient IC engine with direct-injection, etc. running on biofuels with either the flywheel or the super-capicator systems driving electric motors either at the wheels or the drive train. Then include a smaller than normal high-efficiency battery pack storing excess energy or energy derived from the engine for the times when the KERS does not have enough energy to be effective. Of course weight and complexities are issues but with the newer materials and higher-efficiencies, I'm thinking this could work and would be more directly beneficial to road-going cars.

In the real world a hybrid powertrain is good for a 10-40% fuel economy improvement. If you keep the same engine and have a mild hybrid setup the improvement could be quite small closer to 10-15%. If you use a smaller/atkinson cycle/less powerful gasoline engine and stick the electric motor between the engine and the gearbox you get more improvement and get closer to 20-25%. If you use a CVT system that Toyota and I think Ford use (completely different from their race car) you get even more improvement. With any system the improvements are much better in the city than on the highway because of no idle time and more regeneration/assist chances. With any system the key is to use the gasoline engine as little as possible (shut it off) and when necessary to use it less (rely as much as possible on electric motor assist) hence a battery system is the best setup. Even fairly mild hybrid systems promise up to around 3 minutes of pure electric drive under the best conditions (which I don't think a flywheel or a supercapacitor setup allows for) which is why you see batteries in road cars.

The system you are talking about is called a series hybrid. The Chevy Volt is closest to that but for road going car parallel setups are the go to system.

[ss_collins]

What a fun thread. I like this a lot. Not gonna throw my hat in yet beyond saying like drunk in the corner "Methanol lad, I tell ya Methanol".

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

What a fun thread. I like this a lot. Not gonna throw my hat in yet beyond saying like drunk in the corner "Methanol lad, I tell ya Methanol".

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/132014...s_alcohol_car/ Like this?

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by Purist

At the end of the day, advanced composites will always be cost/skill prohibitive compared to metal working.

Here is a new twist on steel that is pretty cool.

http://www.nanosteelco.com/breakthrough/index.php#video

I read an article a while back about a Japanese company that has a new low cost composite that GM is partnering with as well.

BMW has a partnership with a California cf company too; so there is a push to make the material more mainstream.

[Félix]

Your tub could be worth 5000$, as long as you need to hang an engine that's in the 6 figure$, a gearbox that takes weeks to cast and all kinds of components that are very rare and thus very easy to price absurdly so that the few specialists that are left in the market can make a profit - well it's always gonna be expensive. (and of course the alternative is something akin to mid-engined NASCAR/Daytona Protoypes. And while we're on that subject, the RACES worth watching now are for the lead in Grand Am; probably just as good as ALMS GT but with TV coverage)

I guess it was better when Porsche was making huge runs of identical 962s and parts were available and paid in 1985 money... but that was still very expensive and it only works when the economy is good and the SPORT is attractive. Look at the (somewhat) standard 997 RSR and it still costs over half a million!

[Tim the Grey]

I think things will be re-trenching for a while, then SOMETHING turns up that goes like stink, yet doesn't cause you to empty a biro writing the zeroes...
Think about McLaren GTR. LM winner, that was an expensive road car, but compared to a then current pure racer, was a bargain...
Until then, it's a reducing market.
Meantime, Energy Recovery will be THE mantra, with all sorts of systems appearing, being discussed, then dropped as too expensive, complicated, heavy, or all 3!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

What a fun thread. I like this a lot. Not gonna throw my hat in yet beyond saying like drunk in the corner "Methanol lad, I tell ya Methanol".

Thats the crap that goes on fire , but with an invisable flame ..... thats nasty crap and should be banned under safety grounds .

[Purist]

I have to disagree there. i certainly can't recall methanol being any worse in terms of frequency of fires. Also, on the whole, I would have to say it's easier to put out. I've seen multiple gasoline fires at races that were VASTLY harder to put out than the most virulent methanol incident I can think of.

Probably the incident involving dope fuel that comes to mind most for me, in recent years, is Tony Kanaan's incident at Mexico City in 2002.

As for gasoline fires that were a nightmare to put out, there was Ricardo Paletti's car after it hit Pironi's stalled Ferrari in Montreal in 1982. There was a serious fire in the Rothmans Porsche pit during the 1985 Hockenheim 1000km; Norbert Singer went to the hospital after that one. Finally, the distinctive #80, Ferrari-powered Camel Lights car sheered off the right side against the concrete at San Antonio, and that thing just would not go out.

Also, except herhaps for recent Indy Cars, I can't recall a modern tank burst for an alcohol-laden race car.

[The Badger]

Yeah , I forgot it was easier to extinguish ..... I stand corrected .

Would there be any kind of additive to ensure that you could see the flames ?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yeah , I forgot it was easier to extinguish ..... I stand corrected .

Would there be any kind of additive to ensure that you could see the flames ?

Didn't they have a system in ChampCar that detected it!?
But there most be some chemical witch makes the flames visible. Otherwise, a thin coat of Magnisium on the panels, would stop any doubts

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by CTD

Didn't they have a system in ChampCar that detected it!?

Yeah, it's called dancing and hopping drivers!

Originally Posted by CTD

But there most be some chemical witch makes the flames visible. Otherwise, a thin coat of Magnisium on the panels, would stop any doubts

That would do the trick for sure!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by CTD

chemical witch

Never heard of her before , is she anything to the wicked witch of the north ?

The chemical witch , I like that !!!

[CTD]

Damn iPhone, got auto correction off .
Which*