USCC (leave your axe outside)

[Purist]

Well, I don't think it's going to be 70 cars for the season (an absolute addition of the two series together). I could certainly see 50 cars for the regular rounds, perhaps 55, with up to 80 for Daytona, and up to 65 (maybe 70) for Sebring. If Road America held an enduro, I think it could handle up to 70-75 cars. Road Atlanta shouldn't be pushed past 60 cars on the grid; the largest combined grid it hosted in the GTP era was 59 cars for a 500k race in 1983, I think.

Remember, back when Sebring could also host 75-85 cars, its lap was 5.200 miles, or 4.860 miles in 1983-86; it's now only 3.700 miles around. The current layout is shorter, slower, uses less runway, and just doesn't have that same grid capacity anymore.

To be honest, I think it would be a real drain to try and follow the series if half the rounds, and therefore 2/3rds of the races, were split format. We don't have GTP-caliber Prototypes going into this thing, nor GTS/GT1-type GTs as the top class there. In other words, the cars in the top class in each race are going to have to themselves be exciting enough to warrant that level of commitment to the series, and I can't convincingly say that P2s/DPs and GTEs are absolutely able to fit that bill.

[Salamus]

If they do end up having split class weekends, they could put DP/P2/DW with the GT-Ds and the PCs with the GT-LMs.

[Purist]

I'm not sure that even you would particularly enjoy that. It would seem like the PCs were in the way of the GTEs, and that the GTDs were just filler with all the other Prototypes out there. Also, it would be rather imbalanced; the PC and GTE race could have around 20-25 cars, while the P2/DP/DW and GTD race could have more like 40-45 cars. It just makes more sense, and works out better, to have it split cleanly between Prototypes and GTs.

(In theory, there might be bonus entries at some split events, because a different class would be leading the race, but again, this gets back to the cars in the specific class(es) being exciting enough to hold sufficient interest to last through, not one, but two races. And, of course, can you even get equal TV packages for the Prototype races and the GT races separately? This will be necessary to make such a split class arrangement workable.)

I'm not intentionally trying to shoot you down, Salamus, but it's just not so simple. Despite my annoyance with Herr Tilke, this is one area in which having a slate of longer, F1 circuits to choose from actually would come in handy.

[Salamus]

No need to worry, I'm just bringing up new ideas. Never said any of them were good.

You do mention an interesting point about the TV package though. With so many cars in one race, it will be very hard for teams to get any TV recognition.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Purist, I have to ask what you're assuming the full field next year will come to?

Regular rounds I think might be in the mid 50s. Daytona, Sebring and Petite possibly into the 70s






L.P.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Purist

We don't have GTP-caliber Prototypes going into this thing, nor GTS/GT1-type GTs as the top class there. In other words, the cars in the top class in each race are going to have to themselves be exciting enough to warrant that level of commitment to the series, and I can't convincingly say that P2s/DPs and GTEs are absolutely able to fit that bill.

You have hit the nail resoundingly on the head with that statement!

The GTLM manufacturers are probably not going to be happy at all if they are in some short low billing race that will have little or no coverage.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Last question - how difficult is it going to LeMans 24 from USA without any French??

Best to go to the LM24 sub section - but its no problem - plenty of us Brits do it.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

That leaves the following:

Barber, Long Beach, Detroit, Mosport, Baltimore, VIR

Now, here's the sticky part: Does USCR continue a relationship with Indycar - with which four of the above would be paired - or do they break that relationship and do their own thing?

I'm just hoping that they don't poo on a more classic permanent venue for a street circuit.
[/thinkoutloud]

Long Beach, Detroit and Baltimore are extremely important markets. The executives will want to please sponsors by running there. I wouldn't dismiss a return to Houston either.

[seanyb505]

The bottom half of the logo represents a street circuit. I doubt they will run only one or two a year. I'll agree with above, at least long beach Detroit and Baltimore they will try to retain.

[Maelochs]

They claim the bottom portion of the logo represents a street circuit---I say it represents the Chinese character for "We can sell these suckers anything if we talk enough."

I'd agree with NaBUru38, it's all about markets. Long Beach is way too important a market and too important an event to pass up. Baltimore also; there is nothing else on the upper Mid-Atlantic coast region so I expect USuckr to be there.

Houston? No need if the series visits Austin. Detroit? Not sure. Mosport might capture some of the same market.

With a twelve-race schedule with certain races already locked in, there isn’t room for too many new street courses.

Also, at There Veal it was emphasized (I believe by Scott A, so believe that if you choose) that USuckr was positioning itself a s a premier, standalone series which would not share weekends, and top billing, with other series.

This makes even more sense at street courses where a full field might create too much traffic and practice sessions might be split between GT and P classes (Rolex already does this even at longer circuits.) Add to that the full bill of support series from ALMS, GA, and IndyCar, and it is hard to imagine everyone being happy on a shared weekend (though fans would love it.)

Who knows? Not me. I’d think Laguna Seca, Road America, CotA, Watkins Glen would be necessities. Add to that Sebring, Daytona, and Road Atlanta, and there are five slots left. Mosport gets the Canadian market (not sure if either series actually understands that people in Canada have TVs and follow racing,) then add Long Beach and Baltimore and there are two slots left. VIR and Barber seem to make sense, but what about Mid-Ohio?

Lime Rock? I don’t see it surviving even though it is always a great event. Watkins and Baltimore would cover the same basic areas. Kansas? Good for a laugh, not a race. Indy? Hmmm … a decent race last year but a flop in terms of fan attendance, but an important TV market.

Whatever. I have no idea and I am not sure anyone at USuckr does either.

[wdave0]

[QUOTE=Purist;3224709]Welcome, Dave. It's always good to add another insightful voice to the conversation.

There's no need to mess with the durations at Sebring and Road Atlanta. GA ran into Darkness at Miller, which has minimal lighting.

I honestly think Audi would get more recognition running a GTE R8 than plunking one of their de-tuned, de-turbo'd V8s into a DP.

I suspect that the Continental DP tire is rather conservative, and could be worth a fair amount of time on its own. That would be the single easiest adjustment to get DPs and P2s closer to being equal.>>>>>>


Sorry about the tongue in cheek regarding darkness, the lights at Daytona are one of the reasons Grand Am lost me as a fan and one of the general "dumbing down" actions that they tried to woo the NASCAR fan and drove away road race fans.

As for Audi running a DP, we certainly would respect a GTE R8 more but watch some TV coverage - DP gets almost all the airtime, even at this years' 24 the GT class got very minor mention (and that only after it was pretty clear that Ganassi were going to take their pre-ordained win). Being in the top class is the stated reason Patron switched to LMP2. Look at the TV and press coverage of the DP "Corvette" (Riley Chevy, Dallara Chevy, Coyote Chevy). There has been no pretending that DP is to be the premiere class of the (at least near) future. Knowledgeable fans don't seem to count so much in marketing.

Interestingly, everyone had assumed the DP Continental tires were stones until the LMPCs picked up huge time on them at Sebring compared to their Michelins. Then Michelin had only LMPC tires for the LMP2s due to the late announcements and they did not seem particularly handicapped. Seems the Contis aren't so bad after all. Also still, the DP's need to gain a couple of seconds just to stay with the LMPCs. Do note, LMPCs have very similar engine to DP and a more sophisticated chassis.

[NaBUru38]

Houston and Austin... Texas is huge, you never know. Anyway, the SCCA World Challenge will race there this year, so dealers can promote their sports cars already.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

They claim the bottom portion of the logo represents a street circuit---I say it represents the Chinese character for "We can sell these suckers anything if we talk enough."

LOL

[NaBUru38]

Oh, Margott! Now there's some clues of who's behind #TheSplit. Check this tweet:

Originally Posted by John Dagys

Porsche's P1 program was supposed to be for the ALMS, not WEC.. but then the "merger" happened and got rid of P1

Edit: Eve Hewitt disagrees.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Interestingly, everyone had assumed the DP Continental tires were stones until the LMPCs picked up huge time on them at Sebring compared to their Michelins. Then Michelin had only LMPC tires for the LMP2s due to the late announcements and they did not seem particularly handicapped. Seems the Contis aren't so bad after all. Also still, the DP's need to gain a couple of seconds just to stay with the LMPCs. Do note, LMPCs have very similar engine to DP and a more sophisticated chassis.

DHH made a comment after Sebring that the Conti's were good over a single stint but lost a lot if they were double stinted. While the old Michelin tires were more capable over long runs.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Oh, Margott! Now there's some clues of who's behind #TheSplit. Check this tweet:

Edit: Eve Hewitt disagrees.

Yeah can't say I believe this personally. Think it was all about coming back, winning Le Mans and taking on the top brands.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Oh, Margott! Now there's some clues of who's behind #TheSplit. Check this tweet:



Edit: Eve Hewitt disagrees.

IIRC wasn't the Porsche LMP1 program just targeted at Le Mans initially? Surely if they were to debut in 2014 then sure they have already started working on a P1 car. So wouldn't it be rather wasteful to can a project when allegedly everything was in place alongside the new 991 RSR project?

[Canada ALMS fan]

I posted this in the World Challenge thread too but would be curious to hear others' thoughts:

You know, after seeing this series on the weekend with the SLS and R8 now in it, if they added a real prototype (either P1 or P2) class to their sprint races they could give the USCR a real run for the money with 2 races each event IMO. That way we wouldn't have to stomach all the DP and LMPC garbage machinery. Not endurance and a little bit of touring car thrown in, but hey... The touring cars aren't Mazdas at least, they're bad ass Caddys and Volvos. Cool cars are what it's all about. These guys allow GT3 and an LMP class, voila! Tim Pappas said his SLS had a large restricter and a little bit smaller splitter but other than that it is pretty much off the shelf GT3. These Audis don't have to have the goofy size roll cage either.

[Gingers4Justice]

Porsche always mentioned Le Mans and also the WEC, they may have hinted at racing in America but clearly the programme didn't hinge on it.

[Maelochs]

@Canada ALMS Fan:

With so many people saying they'd prefer a GT-only series, I see no reason from PWC to add a prototype class.

I am a big prototype fan, but PWC has finally found the right formula and they'd be crazy to mess with it.

The people who might want to worry would be CTSCC---PQWC is a direct comeptitor, except it has shoreter races and cooler cars. For this reason and the issue of track time (USuckr has a pile of support series) I kind of doubt PWC will be sharing events with anyone but IndyCar ever again.

But if USuckr is lame, CTSCC might displace that as the main attraction on their race weekends.

[Fogelhund]

Related, mostly.

http://www.grand-am.com/News/GA_News...agreement.aspx The collective goal is a North American version of DTM. The earliest the new series would begin would be 2015, possibly running as part of United SportsCar Racing event weekends.

[Fogelhund]

btw... Just an opinion, but they should focus their efforts, and available dollars on making USCR work, instead of creating a new series.. Have a merger to strengthen the sport, then create another series in the same sandbox to dilute things. Not a great sign for those hoping somehow two bad management groups combined, can somehow be made into something that works.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

btw... Just an opinion, but they should focus their efforts, and available dollars on making USCR work, instead of creating a new series.. Have a merger to strengthen the sport, then create another series in the same sandbox to dilute things. Not a great sign for those hoping somehow two bad management groups combined, can somehow be made into something that works.

Exactly! I think one of the reasons the alms gt class is so popular is because of the factory involvement, if that involvement is focused to a new series what will happen to the interest in uscr?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

@Canada ALMS Fan:

With so many people saying they'd prefer a GT-only series, I see no reason from PWC to add a prototype class.

I am a big prototype fan, but PWC has finally found the right formula and they'd be crazy to mess with it.

The people who might want to worry would be CTSCC---PQWC is a direct comeptitor, except it has shoreter races and cooler cars. For this reason and the issue of track time (USuckr has a pile of support series) I kind of doubt PWC will be sharing events with anyone but IndyCar ever again.

But if USuckr is lame, CTSCC might displace that as the main attraction on their race weekends.

I agree PWC is great as it is, no doubt. The best on-track product the series has ever seen IMO. You saw that for yourself in St. Pete. I was just thinking if they allowed a home for the handful of disenfranchised teams not embraced by the USCR in their own class (Dyson, Muscle Milk, maybe a couple of others) what would the harm be?

@ Brett - agree 100%. It's like they're trying to monopolize every genre instead of focusing on making one or two great series.

[Scooter185]

Originally Posted by joeb

Exactly! I think one of the reasons the alms gt class is so popular is because of the factory involvement, if that involvement is focused to a new series what will happen to the interest in uscr?

maybe NASCAR wants to shift the Werks efforts to 2nd fiddle and create a Privateer Spec racing paradise in USCR?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

btw... Just an opinion, but they should focus their efforts, and available dollars on making USCR work, instead of creating a new series.. Have a merger to strengthen the sport, then create another series in the same sandbox to dilute things. Not a great sign for those hoping somehow two bad management groups combined, can somehow be made into something that works.

I completely agree.

I cannot fathom this on any level. Surely it just takes manufacturer spend and potential entrants away from the USCR?