2006 Australian GT Championship (amongst other things GT)

[Chucky]

I think "Cheese-scoffing surrender-monkey" is the phrase you're looking for.

[silver 2]

To answer? XR 8 re Neil Bryson who has just purchased the ex Maranello Ferrari 360C.Neil competed in the Victorian State Series in the MG class and then moved to the very strong 944 Challenge class.Then purchased the ex Porsche Cup car 964/911(Max Dunn/Wayne Cooper/Wayne Hennig/Karl Macheroux) .Raced that car for a year or so in VSRS and selected Porsche Cup rounds and then purchased ex Micheal Downard GT3 and subsequently did some Nations Cup rounds and regularly the Victorian State Series.Never got comfortable with that car and sold it to return to his original 911 now updated to 993 GT2 look and fitted with a turbo engine.(as an aside the original 3.8 was sold to Garth Rainsbury(also a former944 Challenge winner) and is the engine Rainsbury is using in the car he has raced recently.)The relevence is that in researching this I was told that the two of them are sharing the Rainsbury Porshe RSR in Queensland next weekend in the 1 Hour Marque Sports Intermarque Challenge.Also a short race for each driver. Yes it is on the program as well as the APDC/AUS GT group.

[johnh875]

FF were there any 60's Ferraris or Masers running around Winton?

[00 XR8]

Thanks silver, the Nations Cup rounds he contested explains why I have heard his name before

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by silver 2

The relevence is that in researching this I was told that the two of them are sharing the Rainsbury Porshe RSR in Queensland next weekend in the 1 Hour Marque Sports Intermarque Challenge.Also a short race for each driver. Yes it is on the program as well as the APDC/AUS GT group.

Which is quite silly. Cant imagine the thinking in this one.

[silver 2]

Yeah, looking at the entry list you would have a terrific grid if you combined them.If those responsible included more cars in their eligibility it would have created a full grid. At least the 1 hour race has a decent number of cars (26) .

[ff s conscience]

No John

Oldest car was a carb 308 I think.

[johnh875]

Cheers FF, actually I'm relieved because I would have been kicking myself for missing the chance to see those sorts of cars run in anger.

I wonder what the marque sports/Aus GT division is based on? Is marque sports open to all ages of car whereas Aus GT only for recent models? Surely lap times at the pointy end of MS wouldn’t be out of place in Aus GT? Maybe it is just duplication.

[racer69]

Aus GT is for GT cars only. Marque Sports is open to cars which are best-termed as 'Sportscars', which GT cars do form a part of.

I don't see what the problem is, Marque Sports and the Australian GT Championship are two completely different concepts. Some of the cars not eligible for Aus GT in the Marque Sports category are not eligible because they aren't GT cars, as simple (and commen sense) as that.

[silver 2]

Essentially Marque Sports encompasses all sports cars both old and new.The CAMS catergory is 2B .CAMS and Aus GT have seen fit to exclude huge numbers of makes and models that are seen competing in the various State Series. CAMS & Aus GT have a very narrow list of eligible cars and the end result is obvious foe Queensland-- 4/5/6 at the mos GT cars.An incredible piece of stupidity continues to be perpertrated to favour those few cars.To highlight that stupidity a mongrel bitsa Honda (circa 1991) can run but a 1998 Porsche or some 2004 models cannot. 1997 Lambo is OK but a Cobra replica type 2004 cannot.The depth and quality in the Victorian and NSW State Series is ignored to produce the farce.The Intermarque 1 Hour list has a number of models that are not eligible for Aus GT and for the ! Hour races later in the year are expecting 52 and 48 cars respectively on the Grid in Victoria and NSW.It highlights what could be with a more open minded attitude but all the promises made by those involved have come to a very poor actual performance.We are all the losers as we are being deprived of quality sportscar racing by this attitude.

[silver 2]

racer69 writes that Marque Sports and GT are completely different concepts-- what rubbish. The only GT cars that are not eligible for Marque Sports are those that are CAMS cat 3 cars like the Mustang. The Honda engine configuration is wrong(if original type engine was in it it would be ok)Other than that all the GT cars are eligible Marque Sportscars. Many GT cars are deemed ineligible for Gt .All open cars are ineligible.( the paranoi in advance of the mooted GRM Holden engined Elfin) The common sense racer 69 refers to is everything but as the depth in cars is missing as a result of that narrow approach.look at the miserable entry list for Queensland.

[racer69]

But it isn't Sportscar racing, it is GT racing. Firstly the Cobra replica that you mention is just that, a replica. It also (from memory) doesn't have a roof, therefore not qualifying as a GT car.
Don't forget all the uncertainty and lack of promotion over what is happening in the series (of which mangaement are certainly at fault) hasn't helped the chase for entries

[racer69]

Originally Posted by silver 2

racer69 writes that Marque Sports and GT are completely different concepts-- what rubbish. The only GT cars that are not eligible for Marque Sports are those that are CAMS cat 3 cars like the Mustang. The Honda engine configuration is wrong(if original type engine was in it it would be ok)Other than that all the GT cars are eligible Marque Sportscars. Many GT cars are deemed ineligible for Gt .All open cars are ineligible.( the paranoi in advance of the mooted GRM Holden engined Elfin) The common sense racer 69 refers to is everything but as the depth in cars is missing as a result of that narrow approach.look at the miserable entry list for Queensland.

If you re-read my post i say that GT cars are certainly a part of Marque Sports racing, and are eligible. What i say is that alot of Marque Sports cars are not GT cars, and the series you continue to pan is a GT Championship.

[silver 2]

racer69 you think I am panning it without cause.Your happy with a repeat of Nations Cup. 4/5/6? cars is acceptable You are kidding! Only relatives of the CAMS and the unrepresentative few they listened to could possibly be so uncritical.

[Crash Test]

Entries from the AMRS round at QR this weekend-

Category Sponsor Driver Vehicle
GT / Porsche Team Lamborghini Australia TBA Lamborghini Diablo GTR
GT / Porsche Team Lamborghini Australia TBA Lamborghini Diablo GTR
GT / Porsche Simon Middleton Simon Middleton Porsche GT3
GT / Porsche Jim Beam Racing Geoff Munday Ford Mustang RA
GT / Porsche Don Tryhorn Don Tryhorn Porsche 964 RS
GT / Porsche Quarterback Mark Eddy Porsche GT3R
GT / Porsche Greg Ward Greg Ward Porsche GT3 Cup Car
GT / Porsche Max Twigg Max Twigg Porsche 993 RSR
GT / Porsche Instant Foundation Ian Palmer Honda NSX
GT / Porsche CGA Bryson Developments Neil Bryson Ferrari 360 Challenge
GT / Porsche Integrated Group Claude Giorgi Porsche GT3
GT / Porsche Lynn's Building Materials Malcolm Lynn Porsche GT3
GT / Porsche Moodie & Associates TBA 993 RSCS
GT / Porsche Sedgman Pty Ltd Russell Kempnich Porsche GT3
GT / Porsche Song Zu TBA 993 RSCS
GT / Porsche ADRAD Radiators Bryce Washington GT3 Cup Car
GT / Porsche PDL Electrical, Active Electrical Dean Savage Ferrari 360 Challenge
GT / Porsche Aqua 1 Garth Rainsbury Porsche 911
GT / Porsche ABCOR P/L, Preston General Engineering John Kaias Porsche GT3
GT / Porsche Assetval P/L Phillip Holzberger GT3RS
GT / Porsche Industry Central - Stahlwille John Teulan Ferrari 360 Challenge

Category Sponsor Driver 1 Driver 2 Vehicle
Sports Cars Chris Stannard Chris Stannard Geoff Morgan Porsche RSCS
Sports Cars Archerfield Speed Karts Donald Lake Ash Lowe Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Chapman Automotive Brian Falloon Grant Wilson Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Gerry Geltch Gerry Geltch Tim Sipp Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Pacific Blue Super Yachts Jon Hope TBA Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Intermarque.net TBA TBA Porsche GT 2
Sports Cars Aquamax Dean Grant Andrew Taplin Porsche GT 3
Sports Cars Steve Morcombe Steve Morcombe Guy Morcombe Westfield SE
Sports Cars Pro Mat Matt Turnbull Michael Garner Porsche GT 3
Sports Cars Greg Ward Greg Ward Dave Stevens Porsche GT 3
Sports Cars Intermarque.net Ashley Walton TBA Porsche GT 2
Sports Cars Gold Coast Embroidery Peter Lacey Stephen Robinson Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Intermarque.net TBA TBA Porsche GT 3
Sports Cars Anderson Motorsport Brian Anderson Ed Chivers Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars All Bathroom Gear Henri Van Roden Fred Douglas Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Brian Ferrabee Brian Ferrabee David Barram Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Wynn Tresidder Paul Tresidder John Good Porsche RSCS
Sports Cars Race Car Rentals Renato Loberto TBA Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Relana Property Management David Gainer Stephen Gainer Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Lynn's Building Materials Malcolm Lynn Blake Lynn Porsche GT 3
Sports Cars Motul Oils/Aim Sportsystems Andy Balodis Sam Abay Porsche 944
Sports Cars Grand Prix Mazda Jake Camilleri Scott Nicholas Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars Smorgon Steel David Wall Des Wall Mazda RX 7
Sports Cars Song Zu Simon Kane Mat Humphries Porsche RSCS
Sports Cars Gold Coast Embroidery Robin Mary Lacey Sean Lacey Mazda MX 5
Sports Cars PDL Electrical, Active Electrical Dean Savage TBA Ferrari 360 C
Sports Cars Speed Garth Rainsbury Neil Bryson Porsche RSR
Sports Cars Bruce Forsyth Elect P/L Bruce Forsyth Scott Darra Mazda MX 5

[silver 2]

Take the unlikelies out of the GT list and you are left with 3 X Ferrari 360C and ! X Honda . Not exactly an impressive number of cars.

[the man]

What about the 2 TLA Lambos, I didn't see Ted Huglin name there with the 360GT is he running or is he sitting this one out?

[silver 2]

Ted Huglin 360 GT is sitting this one out and has not entered. Lambos are on list but will not run.(that is the info I have-- for the record I heard that from somebody who told somebody about 6 times removed!) Leaves an extrordinarily skinny entry list of GT cars.

[johnh875]

Thanks for the clarification racer & silver. If you ask me (I know, nobody did…) mid-engined cars like a Lamborghini Diablo or a Ferrari 360 are not GT cars because the luggage space (and in many cases comfort) is inadequate for Grand Touring. Out of interest where would a Merc SL fit with its folding hardtop? Side question – disregarding the roof issue what is the difference between sportscar and GT racing? Race length or something more fundamental?

As the thread title implies we are talking about sportscar racing – yes that is another hackneyed argument whether a sportscar can have a roof… lets not go there. Ok here’s a bit of common sense: why not combine sports/GT racing (if we must have the distinction) so that we get a) better fields and b) better racing. Who would not want to see a Ferrari racing a (recognized replica) Cobra? Ring any bells??? I would argue that it would be better for the sport to combine the two and if grids become too large then look at splitting the field along age or lap time lines.

[silver 2]

Well said John875, that is exactly the point.When you become a victim of your own success you can afford to discard cars(hopefully by putting into a second field and then natural attrition).
Your point re Sports/ Gt is an interesting one.Generally GT have a roof but commonsense says there is a lot of versions somewhere in the middle. Why bother- it is far easier to include them all like Marque Sports do.A major part of the GT thinking here was to prevent the GRM Holden Elfin ( stupid really because they are gouing to produce a roofed version now anyway)
The so called replica issue- well that is a joke- as it was put to me- hundreds (even by one manufacturer) have been produced but are ruled unwanted but a Lambo model with 20 odd is acceptable .It is irrational.
Many more cars in the series would see many more wanting to race and in no time the quantity and quality would rise and a combined Sports/Gt field would be providing the quality racing that we all want to see.The example under the noses of all concerned is the success of the Victorian and NSW State Series.Those series should be provide a ready made pool of cars to a National series.
Actually now that I think of it the combined entry lists for Queensland is an example.

[djt46]

Racer, not quite right, Marque Sports permits certain GT cars but GT does not permit many Sports Cars and Marque cars. As for the remarks of Silver2 seems to be on the money, another CAMS bungle/piece of skullduggery

[racer69]

I am not interested in arguing about whether the GT Championship should be a Marque Sports Championship or whatever. The main point i was trying to get across is that the series is promoted and open only to GT cars, unless there is a regulation and name change that is the way it is, rightly or wrongly.

At the moment the Australian GT Championship is open to GT cars, and there is the Intermarque Challenge as well with a grid full of cars too.

Silver 2 - You say that the Intermarque Challenge will get 50 odd-car grids later in the year, and it has been healthy up until now. So what exactly is your problem with the GT Championship, if the cars from Marque Sports still have somewhere to race?

Originally Posted by djt46

Racer, not quite right, Marque Sports permits certain GT cars but GT does not permit many Sports Cars and Marque cars.

Isn't that what i have stated twice in two posts? GT cars form a part of Marque Sports, but Marque Sports doesn't form a part of Australian GT racing.

[mixxer]

Marque Sports cars not being accepted is good for keeping the GT class purity,

However I think they should offer certain Marque Sports the chance this year just for the good of the paying supporters, it was a bit sparce at PI compared to the recent Marque Sports races I've seen (the Sandown weekend was by far the highlight)

[djt46]

The point you miss is that many Marque Sports Cars are GT cars but are excluded.

[mixxer]

I understand what your saying, I believe they should let those certain (As I said above) cars run this year, maybe they can come to a workable arrangment which would keep them in the class.


Of course the flip side is, do the Marque Sports guys want to race in the GT championship