Brabham BT30

[Andrew Fellowes]

Just been and had a look. They are fantastic photos, one comment on a recent pots on TNF, Nye and one or two others said it is Coombs not Coombes. The latter is so common I had always thought it correct but perhaps not.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Gerard Barathieu has kindly donated a set of BT30 images from Rouen 1970 and 1971 which are now on the summary page.

Steve - may I add your picture of the Chris Seaman car?

Allen

Certainly Allen.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by John Turner

And here is BT30-12, at Brands Hatch Superprix, 7 May, 2006, which Neil said was his first outing in it this year:-

Originally Posted by John Turner

Simon Langman's BT30-25 at Brands Hatch Superprix, 7 May, 2006:-

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

... BT30-8, Monday 13th June 1988

Gents

May I add these to the ORC.info page?

Thanks

Allen

[John Turner]

Yes, please do!

[allenbrown]

Andrew

I just spotted the George Dudley references below.

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

BT30-11
1970 John Watson
1971 Crashed and uprated to BT36
1972 Bob Howlings (enters George Dudley as BT30-26)*1
1972 Tony Dean*2
1973 Alex Seldon
1973-76 Phillip Guerola
1978 for sale in Autosport
John Bradbury, David Riseworth, Kelvin Lamberth
2003 David McLaughlin
2003 David Brown
2004 Ian Gray

BT30-26
1970 Alistair Walker
1971 Alister Walker to Howlings?
1972 George Dudley reported in Howlings car BT36-26, more likely BT30/36-11

The first race appearances I have for George Dudley are in August and September 1971 where he has a F2 Tecno at Castle Combe and then a "recently acquired ex-Alastair Guthrie [sic] Brabham BT30" at Thruxton on 26 Sep. This can't be BT30-11 as Watson still had it at that point. Howlings had been running a BT30 in the weeks immediately before this and as he had the ex-Dudley Tecno at Oulton Park on 2 Oct, it's odds-on that Dudley had part-exchanged the Tecno for the BT30 that Howlings had been running. I haven't found any solid proof that Howlings had the ex-Walker BT30-26 but I'll look again.

The car the Chris has spotted Dudley running at Thruxton in May 1972 must surely be the same car he'd bought in Sep 1971 - i.e. not BT30-11.

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Andrew

I haven't found any solid proof that Howlings had the ex-Walker BT30-26 but I'll look again.

The car the Chris has spotted Dudley running at Thruxton in May 1972 must surely be the same car he'd bought in Sep 1971 - i.e. not BT30-11.

Allen

Well I may have done, M/N 1972 May 18th p.31, George Dudley. Now I say may as my M/Ns are at home or I would dive in & dble check what it says.
I think there is enough there to edit the BT30 page accordingly. My apologies Chris for ever doubting your deductions!

As to the photo, please do use it, I've got some better ones but I didn't put them forward because I feel the car should really carry 'Tommy Reid' and not 'Alan Rollinson.' However I'll go through them this evening and dig out anything better!

[Andrew Fellowes]

John can I ask you a question, are there any bits of Bryan's original thread that ended up on the cutting room floor?
If so do you still have the out takes?

Andrew & email sent!

[John Turner]

Andrew, sorry I haven't replied to your em, yet. The original thread is intact if I can find it, but I would not have taken out anything that would have been related to the BT30; I will check, however, and get back to you!

[allenbrown]

Regarding the BT30-17 debate, I appear to have stirred things up a bit over at the other place.

Allen

[allenbrown]

PS I've PM's Gerard Gamand about his BT30.

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

Wowa! You sure did!

But the explanation was easy and not controversial.

John, many thanks.

Andrew

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

PS I've PM's Gerard Gamand about his BT30.

Allen

If you get a reply, can you ask about BT28-27 too?

Andrew

[allenbrown]

Beat could admit that he made a simple mistake and fix it. It's no big deal. I don't understand why he's maintaining a particular view based on his memory when all the facts contradict it.

[Andrew Fellowes]

BT30-27 has intrigued me as to the sequence of events, this is what I speculate may have taken place.

Bob Jane put in an order in 1970 for a BT30. He was going to build his own engines and then put a hold on the BT30 order. The order is not completed ‘till very early 1971 when John Harvery and John Sheppard visit the factory and Ron Tauranac advises them that it should be updated to BT36 spec. The chassis is then returned to Arch Motors and the ensuing delay means that it does not then arrive in Australia ‘till late in the year. It is entered in its first race on 21st November 1971 as a BT36 but perhaps it should have been called a BT30/36.

Now I would like to know if it raced any earlier than November, or indeed when #27 actually arrived in Oz.

[Bryan Miller]

Andrew,

The Autosport , U.K. report of either the Tasman race or the AGP reported the car as a BT30/36. Can't locate magazine at the moment.

Bryan.

[Ted Walker]

Andrew.As you know up-dating a 30 chassis into a 36 chassis would involve removing the rear cross member area to graft on the mods for in board rear brakes etc. It would probably been more cost effective to have a 36 chassis complete with ALL the mods ????

[Ted Walker]

Forgot to ad does chassis 27 have inboard rear brakes ?????

[Andrew Fellowes]

Yes Ted thats the odd thing, its 100% BT36.

Now why did Jane buy a BT30 when I assume that everyone would have known by late in 1970 that a new chassis was on the way? Every one except the colonials far away?

Here in Oz the car is credited as being the BT36 prototype, something quite frankly I think is unlikely. The Autosport report is interesting, thats much more logical. Why did it then get called at BT36 here when plainly it has a BT30 chassis plate?

[Bryan Miller]

I think you are all heading up the wrong path.

A car was ordered and deposit paid by Bob Jane , and a car would have been at least started by Ron and his merry men , and allocated the chassis number BT30-27 , if I remember correctly the Bob Jane Organisation had plans to build their own 2 litre eng. a magazine , probably Racing Car News , had some sort of note or article about this , however the eng. programme was eventually discontinued and a Waggott 2 litre purchased .

I would imagine the Brabham factory were advised that there was no hurry with the car and it sat partly built , untill Ron needed some or all of it for a repair or similar , then finally they get the go ahead for the car , however by this time we are at the end 1970 or early 1971 , and the original car components were long since sold , EXCEPT THE CHASSIS PLATE, then the factory simply built a new BT36 and stuffed the old unused plate on the car , the car had an AM 71 number and was ex works 23rd. March 1971 , this on letterhead and signed by the late George Thornton, my BT35-8 left the factory the day after 30-27.

What was originally laid down to become BT30-27 very likely was used to get someone else running after an accident .
This car had AM 71-4 , so it cannot be the prototype either , however it is easy to see how it would have been construed as such , a BT36 spec. car with a BT 30 number , MUST BE THE PROTOTYPE BT36 eh what.!!!!!!

I will see Ron T. in 2 weeks time and will see if he remembers the car and what happened , I dought it though , Ron is still very good at advising what to do to fix a chassis / set up problem , but pretty hazy about things like this.
He will be our guest at the A1 G.P. at Eastern Creek.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

The date of 23 Mar 1971 is very useful. What did it do between March and November? It seems a long time not to use a car.

Did the AM number come from George Thornton is that from observation?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Alan,

Ex works 23-3-1971 , then down to the London docks? wait for a ship , then probably 2 months floating across the ocean , unload in Oz , then start fitting a Waggott eng. which may or may not have been on hand and ready to go , make exhausts , etc. easily get rid of a few months and hey. presto near the end of 1971.

The factory letter also gives the FT200 # 471 , which means nothing unless you know my car has FT200 #599 , and the cars went out 1 day apart , however BT29-47 to Opert went out 30-6-1970 and had FT 200#452, so it looks like it had it's original intended gearbox .

The AM # 71-4 DK is from observation on Peter Johnson's car.

Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

The AM # 71-4 DK is from observation on Peter Johnson's car.
Bryan.

Interesting, I have been told that all the BT36's are the other way around, as per BT36-10, AM56-71 CL

Andrew

[Bryan Miller]

Andrew , yes I know that is what Ted has advised , and I don't have the slightest problem with his advise , with the Jane team stuffing Ron around anything could have happened , maybe the 30 chassis went back and Arch reworked the back end and then it got a new number , you will never figure it out.

Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Powerslide Juni 1974 p.53

Brabham BT30 F2

FVA-Motor 1600 ccm, elektrische Aundung. 245 PS, mit 4 Regenreifen, 4 neun Slick Firestone, 4 Slick Dunlop.
Komplette Getriebeubersetzung.
2 Achsen, 10 Felgen.
Verhandlungsbasis Fr. 25 000.-

Telefon 022 - 71 19 16


I wonder which one?

[allenbrown]

Quite a few unaccounted for in 1974 aren't there.

Could be BT30-4 or BT30-7, last seen in Italy; BT30-9, last seen in France; the two crashed ex-Brambilla cars BT30-21 and BT30-22; BT30-24, last seen on the French hills; or even, dare I suggest, the ex-Moser BT30-17.

Allen