ALMS Rnd 11: Petit Le Mans 3-6 Oct 2007

[The Badger]

Im sure like every other new chassis , the Embassy car will have a few niggleing issues , but once their sorted , with their top drivers , they could well be class of the field ..... definetly quicker over a race than 2 RS Spyders with gentlenam drivers in each .

I cant wait to see this Embassy car in action . When is it due for its first test anyway ?

I would love to see Kane or McGaritty get a drive in it !!!

[brielga]

On top of the accurate arguments already given on the "Porsche why not?" matter, I believe Porsche wants to go for the overall win at Le Mans rather than a class win. Penske being considered as a works team (more so if Porsche pays the bill as discussed), them winning LMP2 would just not be enough. Both previous messages I refer to (chewymonster and HORNDAWG) already assume a Porsche vs Diesels battle for the overall win as well. I think Porsche has no issues seeing Verschuur or Horag run a Spyder at Le Mans, with Penske it is a whole different story. Since 1970 on when Porsche goes for it in "works" clothes they really mean it.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by minimangler

personally, i'm glad Audi won- P1 should beat P2, that's the point. It's about time P2 was reigned in, imo.
Hope Bertollini is OK, sounds like a failure, Andrea wouldn't have an accident like that one on his own!

I wish people would stop with this utter nonsense if everybody was in their place the world would run a lot smoother and be very BORING in the process if you want to be cattle or sheep then suit yourself...

The ORIGINAL intent is for the P2 cars to be competitive at a lesser weight and smaller engines allowing private teams to compete with larger P1 cars usually run by factories. What ACO messed up on, is not specifically stating that P2 is for private teams, customer chassis and engines. I would call that a very LARGE loop hole.

Porsche and Acura and Mazda all jumped through it...

Porsche also protected themselves by saying that is was a car built for customers and for profit, but a private team usually isn't blessed with the budget to work all the "bugs" out, so Porsche hired Penske. Was it "Da Capt's" job to be uncompetitive or show the car's potential to future customers?

Stop this endless whining about Porsche and Acura being competitive with the Audi. Who else has stepped up to the P1 plate and challenged?

2008 looks no brighter so far, unless somebody steps forward with a major investment.

The prototype battle will be between factory efforts as it should be, so what if they all aren't in the same class... If Audi wants to dominate maybe they should go to a smaller engine package so they can shorten the wheelbase.

Otherwise the race was pretty good and yes Audi got a break when the SC came out and wiped out the lead built up by Porsche because they didn't have to make a final stop.

I really don't understand the excitement over so-called "close" finish. Uh, if I beat you at the strip by 2 seconds, by the time you cross the line, I would have picked up my time slip and be almost back in line or in the pit area....

In otherwords - THAT IS NOT CLOSE!

When the other guy is on your back bumper - THAT IS CLOSE!

So the P2's almost won again and Audi was gift wrapped a victory for the most part.

GT2 was a total disapointment, like I really wanted to see Porsche finish 1,2,3,4 and 5 in class.

:eyesroll:

No comment about GT1

Thank You for 10 years of the Petit Le Mans, a crown jewel of the series. Let's hope we have an even better one next season.

[chernaudi]

Well, in reality, Porsche was gift wrapped a chance to challenge for the win-the #7 RS Spyder was well over a lap down when McNish had to pit, then a yellow came out, and because the Porsche hadn't pitted yet, it got back on the lead lap. So the yellow flag helped Porsche as much as it helped Audi-the timing of the final yellow worked to the advantage of Audi more than the timing of the caution that got the Porsche back into contention.

And Massen screwed himself when he dive-bombed the Zytec, and rammed the Flying Lizard 911, with the 15-20 laps he lost for repairs, and the 1 minute penalty IMSA gave him for rough driving.

[Spyderman]

Dr. Frank-Steffen Walliser, Porsche AG Director of Motorsport Strategy said that if the RS Spyder were to compete in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, it will do so as a privateer effort.

He also stated the avg lap time difference at Le Mans this year P1 v. P2 was on the order of 16-18 sec.

He did acknowledge that the overall win would not be a realistic goal as the RS Spyder would be ~14 sec a lap slower than the Audi R10.

[chewymonster]

I think the Audi was out 45 seconds ahead and a safety car came out, it was ahead a lap and a safety car came out, and even before those two I think it was 20-30 seconds ahead. There would have been 2-3 lap lead with no safety cars in between.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I wish people would stop with this utter nonsense if everybody was in their place the world would run a lot smoother and be very BORING in the process if you want to be cattle or sheep then suit yourself...

The ORIGINAL intent is for the P2 cars to be competitive at a lesser weight and smaller engines allowing private teams to compete with larger P1 cars usually run by factories. What ACO messed up on, is not specifically stating that P2 is for private teams, customer chassis and engines. I would call that a very LARGE loop hole.

Porsche and Acura and Mazda all jumped through it...

Porsche also protected themselves by saying that is was a car built for customers and for profit, but a private team usually isn't blessed with the budget to work all the "bugs" out, so Porsche hired Penske. Was it "Da Capt's" job to be uncompetitive or show the car's potential to future customers?

Stop this endless whining about Porsche and Acura being competitive with the Audi. Who else has stepped up to the P1 plate and challenged?

2008 looks no brighter so far, unless somebody steps forward with a major investment.

The prototype battle will be between factory efforts as it should be, so what if they all aren't in the same class... If Audi wants to dominate maybe they should go to a smaller engine package so they can shorten the wheelbase.

Otherwise the race was pretty good and yes Audi got a break when the SC came out and wiped out the lead built up by Porsche because they didn't have to make a final stop.

I really don't understand the excitement over so-called "close" finish. Uh, if I beat you at the strip by 2 seconds, by the time you cross the line, I would have picked up my time slip and be almost back in line or in the pit area....

In otherwords - THAT IS NOT CLOSE!

When the other guy is on your back bumper - THAT IS CLOSE!

So the P2's almost won again and Audi was gift wrapped a victory for the most part.

GT2 was a total disapointment, like I really wanted to see Porsche finish 1,2,3,4 and 5 in class.

:eyesroll:

No comment about GT1

Thank You for 10 years of the Petit Le Mans, a crown jewel of the series. Let's hope we have an even better one next season.

Hang on here, what is going on???

I say i like an aspect of the ALMS (Shock, horror etc) and then an american says it wasnt good enough (fall dead faint).

2 seconds after 10 hours is close; remember, this ain't no oval.

And if you can cross the line do the slow down lap and park your car get out get your time slip etc in 2 seconds, get endorsed, you're worth a shedload of cash to someone.

yes, GT1 is crap in US, and it has been for a while; oh, what a shame.

The GT2 second place was decided with a great scrap toward the end, and it's refreshing to see a non Ferrari win; Porsche deserved it!

Better one next season? This had drama right from free practice, with the Audi tyres, right til the bitter end!

Cheer up, seriously, and lower your expectations a bit- or you're never gonna be entertained by anything lasting ten hours....

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The ORIGINAL intent is for the P2 cars to be competitive at a lesser weight and smaller engines allowing private teams to compete with larger P1 cars usually run by factories.

You couldn't be further for the truth with that statement. The P2 class was never intended to compete with P1 cars for overall wins. P675 was, but P2 wasn't.

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I really don't understand the excitement over so-called "close" finish. Uh, if I beat you at the strip by 2 seconds, by the time you cross the line, I would have picked up my time slip and be almost back in line or in the pit area....

In otherwords - THAT IS NOT CLOSE!

When the other guy is on your back bumper - THAT IS CLOSE!

Where the heck did you get 2 seconds??? Geez, after 1000 miles of racing, the gap ends up at less than 2 seconds - heck, less than one second in reality - and that isn't a close finish???? Hopefully with all that extra time you'll have you'll be able to read a map.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I wish people would stop with this utter nonsense if everybody was in their place the world would run a lot smoother and be very BORING in the process if you want to be cattle or sheep then suit yourself...

The ORIGINAL intent is for the P2 cars to be competitive at a lesser weight and smaller engines allowing private teams to compete with larger P1 cars usually run by factories. What ACO messed up on, is not specifically stating that P2 is for private teams, customer chassis and engines. I would call that a very LARGE loop hole.

Porsche and Acura and Mazda all jumped through it...

Porsche also protected themselves by saying that is was a car built for customers and for profit, but a private team usually isn't blessed with the budget to work all the "bugs" out, so Porsche hired Penske. Was it "Da Capt's" job to be uncompetitive or show the car's potential to future customers?

Stop this endless whining about Porsche and Acura being competitive with the Audi. Who else has stepped up to the P1 plate and challenged?

2008 looks no brighter so far, unless somebody steps forward with a major investment.

The prototype battle will be between factory efforts as it should be, so what if they all aren't in the same class... If Audi wants to dominate maybe they should go to a smaller engine package so they can shorten the wheelbase.

Otherwise the race was pretty good and yes Audi got a break when the SC came out and wiped out the lead built up by Porsche because they didn't have to make a final stop.

I really don't understand the excitement over so-called "close" finish. Uh, if I beat you at the strip by 2 seconds, by the time you cross the line, I would have picked up my time slip and be almost back in line or in the pit area....

In otherwords - THAT IS NOT CLOSE!

When the other guy is on your back bumper - THAT IS CLOSE!

So the P2's almost won again and Audi was gift wrapped a victory for the most part.

GT2 was a total disapointment, like I really wanted to see Porsche finish 1,2,3,4 and 5 in class.

:eyesroll:

No comment about GT1

Thank You for 10 years of the Petit Le Mans, a crown jewel of the series. Let's hope we have an even better one next season.

BRAVO-BRAVO!

[dxk1]

I beg to differ with Minimangler's comment about GT1/GTS being crap in the ALMS for years! there have been some poor years (2004 & 2006), but there have been some great years! For example, 2003 where Corvette barely beat Ferrari and 2006 where Corvette barely beat AM. Practically every race was closely contested. Great racing is quality not quantity!

DK

[The359]

GT2 was crap because Porsches were in the top 5? Did you completely miss the fight for second?

[Chaos81]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I really don't understand the excitement over so-called "close" finish. Uh, if I beat you at the strip by 2 seconds, by the time you cross the line, I would have picked up my time slip and be almost back in line or in the pit area....

In otherwords - THAT IS NOT CLOSE!

Using 2 seconds at a drag stip is a horrible comparison imo.

Assuming I'm thinking correctly, your 2 seconds at a drag strip would be well over 2 hours at the end of a 1000 mile race. Going in reverse, 2 seconds over a 1000 mile race would be like 5 ten-thousandths at the strip.


Someone else please correct my math if I'm wrong, I just woke up and my brain isn't working too well at the moment.

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by Chaos81

Using 2 seconds at a drag stip is a horrible comparison imo.

Assuming I'm thinking correctly, your 2 seconds at a drag strip would be well over 2 hours at the end of a 1000 mile race. Going in reverse, 2 seconds over a 1000 mile race would be like 5 ten-thousandths at the strip.


Someone else please correct my math if I'm wrong, I just woke up and my brain isn't working too well at the moment.

It sure is. Except you are way off on your math.

Top fuel runs a 4.6 second race. 2/4.6 or 43%. Petit was around 9.25 hours or so, I think. To be the same amount "late" you would have to finish 4 hours later. Or you would have to go slow enoug to only complete 275 laps when the R10 crossed the finish line.That would put you 4 laps behind the last finisher.
The gap of .973 seconds was only .003% of the entire race or an equivalent of .00013 of a second in a 4.6 second drag race.

tada

[Fogelhund]

Some people just seem to care about the results of an endurance race, as opposed to the intricacies and plot that got us there. Hardly a Porsche dominated race, but certainly that is the result. Perhaps watching the race on TV, has lost what an interesting battle back and forth there was within GT2.

Some people are never happy though.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Some people just seem to care about the results of an endurance race, as opposed to the intricacies and plot that got us there. Hardly a Porsche dominated race, but certainly that is the result. Perhaps watching the race on TV, has lost what an interesting battle back and forth there was within GT2.

Some people are never happy though.

and THAT is why they call it racing.

[TWK]

People not happy is called "racing?" Here I thought it had something to do with getting somewhere before others.

[JHamilton]

The track looked fantastic. Well done Road Atlanta! The cars were noticibly quicker especially in turn 6 and turn 3. Another great Petit, just wish the early attrition had not happened.