Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[JagtechOhio]

These are the three guys who's judgement I would trust the most about building a proper IndyCar.

The persentation is a bit underwhelming though, don't you think? Better renderings and more specific detail about engineering and subcontractor sourcing might have been a good idea.

As far as timing goes, there didn't seem to be a rush to get this out to the public: a lot of the new chassis debate has tapered off, and releasing this proposal a day or two after the Brazil race would have been just fine.

[jondownunder]

I certainly agree about the presentation, the renderings hardly sell the concept well. I don't find its shape attractive, I must say.

[awrb]

Well that certainly looks the least impressive computer model out of them! Looks quite good, but not as nice as the Lola or Swift, and not as revolutionary as the Delta Wing.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see the posts above!

[JagtechOhio]

Glad you pitched in awrb, its good to take the temperature of the room (and the world !) on issues.

I think this general shape, like the Swift #32 or Dallara #3, is where it will shake out in the long run. There is too much concern about safety from the IICS standpoint to allow a fully open wheel design, IMO.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I quite like the BAT mobile. It has a great engineering pedigree and as I've said before when it comes to this sort of engineering you can't beat the English. They've been responsible for most of the innovations in race car and engine design. However, there has to be more than one chassis, otherwise it's just another spec series.

[mountainstar]

I say there needs to be certain set parameters for things like safety and then let people build what they want. If they want to race tricycles, quad turbos, Lola's, Swift's, BAT's, whatever. Whatever they want. Open the rules all the way and it will turn motorsport on it's head and you'll have so much interest you wouldn't believe.

Instead what will happen at some point in the future, is that there will be another boring press conference, with the same boring people talking, and making the announcement of another boring one make series chassis and engine package.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I say there needs to be certain set parameters for things like safety and then let people build what they want. If they want to race tricycles, quad turbos, Lola's, Swift's, BAT's, whatever. Whatever they want. Open the rules all the way and it will turn motorsport on it's head and you'll have so much interest you wouldn't believe.

Instead what will happen at some point in the future, is that there will be another boring press conference, with the same boring people talking, and making the announcement of another boring one make series chassis and engine package.

I mostly agree but I do like the fuel flow limitation concept. Any technology you want. Funky stuff would return, and some of it would work.

[climb]

Originally Posted by mz2k

.... I don't believe Delta Wing is some kind of plan for the owners to make money.

must I ask mother teresa's nuns to better understand what Ganassi and Penske are there for?

Originally Posted by mz2k

Among their stated purpose was to have control over how they spend their money to race in the IRL. ...

i.e. to make more money isn't it?

[JagtechOhio]

Come on, climb,

Everyone knows Chip and Roger go IndyCar racing just so they can give young American drivers a shot at the bigtime.

Oh, wait a minute....

I gue$$ you're right.

[ss_collins]

Instead what will happen at some point in the future, is that there will be another boring press conference, with the same boring people talking, and making the announcement of another boring one make series chassis and engine package.

I fear that you are correct - but I hate the idea

[jondownunder]

The always entertaining Radio Le Mans/Midweek Motorsport crew (hello Sam!) conducted some interesting interviews about the next car:

'Indycar: State of the Series special' includes interviews with Peter McCool (Lola), Ben Bowlby (Delta Wing) and Brendan Kennelly/Chris Norris (Swift) - download podcast from:
http://rlm08.0157.org/mwm.php

Extended interviews with the above:
http://rlm08.0157.org/specials.php

I haven't listened to the extended interviews yet, but hearing Peter McCool speaking in the main special I understand Lola's performance matched dual body style a bit better now. He said along the lines of: if there are two engine manufacturers, the different body style could be used to distinguish between them; alternatively if there was still only one engine, different drivers within a team could run with a different body style.

Also, I think it was already assumed (and maybe known for sure), but Kennelly & Norris confirmed that Swift's concept is based around their existing Formula Nippon chassis.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The latter, 'Swift's concept is based around their existing Formula Nippon chassis' doesn't surprise me. The Lola concept is refreshing.

[JagtechOhio]

I didn't see the TV broadcast myself, and perhaps one of you did and could add some additional detail...

Randy Bernard was on Speed T.V.'s "Wind Tunnel" on Sunday night, and someone wrote that he made a bit of an announcement. Apparently he has decided to name a seven-member panel to write the new vehicle specifications, and Brian Barnhart is not included at the table. This man has been named to chair the group:

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6229

One of the seven chairs will also be filled by a representative elected by the team owners. This is going to get interesting, and probably drawn out in length?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

One of the seven chairs will also be filled by a representative elected by the team owners. This is going to get interesting, and probably drawn out in length?

I suppose they would rather have time to consider the situation than make a hasty descision; there's alot riding on this. Fingers crossed and they get it right.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

I didn't see the TV broadcast myself, and perhaps one of you did and could add some additional detail...

Randy Bernard was on Speed T.V.'s "Wind Tunnel" on Sunday night, and someone wrote that he made a bit of an announcement. Apparently he has decided to name a seven-member panel to write the new vehicle specifications, and Brian Barnhart is not included at the table. This man has been named to chair the group:

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6229

One of the seven chairs will also be filled by a representative elected by the team owners. This is going to get interesting, and probably drawn out in length?

Saw it, he continues to impress! By letting the owners have a voice he should gain quite a lot of credibility and power. The lack of ego is completely baffling, we need more guys like that at the top. To paraphrase: He said getting top quality drivers regardless of origin was key and they are the stars of the show whose stories need to be told. Having saidthat, he felt the American driver issue was important and it needed to be addressed from a grassroots level on up to have a home grown solution.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Saw it, he continues to impress! By letting the owners have a voice he should gain quite a lot of credibility and power. The lack of ego is completely baffling, we need more guys like that at the top. To paraphrase: He said getting top quality drivers regardless of origin was key and they are the stars of the show whose stories need to be told. Having saidthat, he felt the American driver issue was important and it needed to be addressed from a grassroots level on up to have a home grown solution.

The grass roots level is key, not barring foreign drivers from racing as Tony George did. It was having the foreign influence that did so much for CART and gave US openwheel racing the exposure it needed.

[JagtechOhio]

Cheers Canada, thanks for the first hand news. Mr. Bernard is certainly making a good impression so far, and I think he owns some credit for resolving the Comcast issue.

Johnson, I'm guessing you are right and that the May deadline will soon be forgotten. Penske has suggested as much, and Bernard made a comment is an interview the other day that points to the same conclusion.

Problem is, that closes the window for new chassis in competition for 2012. And still no word on any interim changes to the current spec.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Problem is, that closes the window for new chassis in competition for 2012. And still no word on any interim changes to the current spec.

Apart from the current chassis contenders, does that mean there could potentially be more contenders?

[Canada ALMS fan]

Another step in the right direction:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82295
The question for me now is: Now that the owners have a voice will they choose a single make formula or an open one with the lesser teams risking losing out in a development arms race between chassis and engine manufacturers?

[bjohnsonsmith]

The easy answer is, "Who knows?", which is a question in itself. The current economic climate would suggest a single chassis and engine. However, it's just under 2 years before the 2012 season and if things pick up, then that gives more room for maneuver.

After what has happened to open wheel racing since 1996, I don't think anyone really wants to see a repeat of that, so they'll look long term and hopefully opt for multiple chassis and engines.

I see a third option and that is to start with one chassis, etc. but keep it open so other manufacturers can join later on, similar to when CART opened up the series to chassis and engine designers.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The easy answer is, "Who knows?", which is a question in itself. The current economic climate would suggest a single chassis and engine. However, it's just under 2 years before the 2012 season and if things pick up, then that gives more room for maneuver.

I am amazed how many cars are being fielded in this economy with an old car, that is prohibitively expensive based on current ROI for sponsors. Imagine how teams there could be even in this economy if the cost of a car and spares came down to a more reasonable level? Add in a few funds from some manufacturers to showcase engines that are relevant to the real world and they might just be able to right the ship. TV ratings on the way up would help sell some billboard space too...
The lack of posters in this section is a small indication how many fans still care about this series though. They will come back if there are cars they can be passionate about. I am not saying anything any of us has not said a million times, but I actually am not pessimistic about this series for the first time in a long time and that is a good feeling. Having TG gone has washed away all the bad blood too.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I think what's helped was a successful race at Sao Paulo despite the odds and a rather lack lustre Bahrain GP. It also looks like Randy Bernard seems to be doing a good job, though it's early days yet, but it all adds to a very positive mix. I just hope come July, when they make decision they will have had the time to really think it through.

[fasteric]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82295
I'm surprised nobody is talkiing about the interview with the bull rider chief on Speed TV's Wind tunnel show with Robin Miller about a new group to decide the chassis/engine rules

[JagtechOhio]

Post #438 above and subsequent.

Seating a team owner's representative is a move to satisfy the Delta Wing owners group, who have stated that they expect to have a continuing and powerful voice in the drafting of new regulations. This move helps, but won't be sufficient to produce the level of control they expect.

Announcing that neither Brian Barnhart nor Terry Angstadt will have a chair on the board is another political move in the right direction.

The question is who the other members will be in addition to General Looney. The only other indications that have been mentioned are that the chassis selection has been pushed back from the most recent promise of May, and that the engine specification is no closer to a resolution.

Barnhart previously stated that an early decision was necessary for finalized design, prototyping and testing of a new chassis if it was to be mass produced and raced in 2012. Manufacturers acknowledged that 18 months was a timetable they could work with.

An August or September decision...which should enable completion of the Delta Wing prototype...gives me the impression that new chassis will not enter competition until 2013. Indeed, that is what Roger Penske has suggested as a more appropriate timetable.

There does not appear to be an engine manufacturer, other than Honda, who is actively involved in discussing the future specification. Lotus/ Cosworth's anounced sponsorship gives rise to hope that they will be involved as an engine supplier, but no signs of that have been reported to my knowledge.

So if the new "ICONIC" board is also charged with writing a new engine specification, at least Honda and any other manufacturers will know what is expected of them. Two years of "round table" discussions on the subject of engine specs with any interested manufacturer has produced exactly zero results.

And although I continue to raise the issue in front of anyone who won't listen, nobody can build a racecar until they know what the configuration and requirements of the engine are going to be.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

An August or September decision...which should enable completion of the Delta Wing prototype...gives me the impression that new chassis will not enter competition until 2013. Indeed, that is what Roger Penske has suggested as a more appropriate timetable.

There does not appear to be an engine manufacturer, other than Honda, who is actively involved in discussing the future specification. Lotus/ Cosworth's anounced sponsorship gives rise to hope that they will be involved as an engine supplier, but no signs of that have been reported to my knowledge.

Even if Honda are the only engine manufcturer on board, delaying the new chassis for another year would be detrimental. There is a growing excitement at the prospect of a new chassis amongst race fans. It's seen as finaly ending these last few years terrible years of US open wheel racing. There is a new CEO, Randy Bernard on the board, a good start to this season and finally there's light at the end of the tunnel an end to stagnation. 2013; thirteen's an unlucky number for some.