Audi LMP1 Discussion

[gregtummer]

Take a look at the top speeds for Silverstone.

The #2 Audi was 13.5kmh faster than the #1 Audi in the race.

Could Audi have had the engine power down and turned it up when the #2 was trying to chase down the #1, suggesting they have been mostly sandbagging this whole time?

Or maybe it is a typo and they meant 272.2kmh?

2 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 Tom KRISTENSEN 284.2 133 Race
12 Rebellion Racing Lola B12/60 Coupé - Toyota LMP1 Nick HEIDFELD 272.0 8 Qualifying Practice
1 Audi Sport Team Joest Audi R18 e-tron quattro LMP1 Marcel FÄSSLER 270.7 57 Race
13 Rebellion Racing Lola B12/60 Coupé - Toyota LMP1 Andrea BELICCHI 270.7 23 Race
21 Strakka Racing HPD ARX 03c - Honda LMP1 Danny WATTS 264.7 19 FREE PRACTICE
7 Toyota Racing Toyota TS030 - Hybrid LMP1 Alexander WURZ 264.1 9 Qualifying Practice
8 Toyota Racing Toyota TS030 - Hybrid LMP1 Sébastien BUEMI 262.8 10 Qualifying Practice

Keep in mind the top speed in both Audi's was set in the race, so its not like they were playing around with the Le Mans low-drag setup in the race.

[gwyllion]

That is clearly a timing glitch.

In http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...lysis_Race.PDF you can see the top speed of every lap. I quickly calculate the median over all laps:

• Audi #1: 265.4 km/h
• Audi #2: 266.0 km/h
• Toyota #7: 256.5 km/h
• Toyota #8: 256.5 km/h
• Rebellion #12: 266.7 km/h
• Rebellion #13: 265.7 km/h

[silente]

Do you know how far before the corner they measured the top speed in Spa and in Silverstone? It is not easy to understand that from the map. From what i know it could also be in the middle of the straight...

[gregtummer]

Someone's top speed measurements are wrong.

I have the entire Fuji race last year from both Audi onboards and according the the WEC website, the top speed was 299.2kph on the #1 Audi on lap 211.

I looked at the race onboard and in a 3 lap margin around the lap, the highest speed I saw on the car was 292kph.

[gwyllion]

Audi has maps of the different WEC tracks, with an indication of the speed and gear.

See http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...lverstone.html for Silverstone and http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...races/spa.html for Spa.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Audi has maps of the different WEC tracks, with an indication of the speed and gear.

See http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...lverstone.html for Silverstone and http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...races/spa.html for Spa.

Its shows the top speed for Fuji at 292kph which is what I saw on the Audi onboards.

However, the WEC site says it was 299kph.

[silente]

Audi has maps of the different WEC tracks, with an indication of the speed and gear.

See http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...lverstone.html for Silverstone and http://www.audi.com/com/brand/en/aud...races/spa.html for Spa.

They don't look very realistic to me. According to these maps in Le Mans Audi has a top speed of 315 km/h. Since 2011 they have always been in the region of 330 km/h.

Also Spa and Silverstone top speed seem a bit on the low side. The same for corners speeds, above all fast corners ones.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by silente

They don't look very realistic to me. According to these maps in Le Mans Audi has a top speed of 315 km/h. Since 2011 they have always been in the region of 330 km/h.

Also Spa and Silverstone top speed seem a bit on the low side. The same for corners speeds, above all fast corners ones.

Maybe Audi is sandbagging on their track maps too.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Maybe Audi is sandbagging on their track maps too.

[zanfo zanfagni]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Its shows the top speed for Fuji at 292kph which is what I saw on the Audi onboards.

However, the WEC site says it was 299kph.

Hi, as someone else noticed, if you see le mans graph, audi reports 315km/h as max speed on the first segmet of mulsanne. Only slowest and poor competitive lmp1 have that speed. Audi site speed values are just indicative and not trustworthy. On fiawec.alkamelsystems.com is reported 299.2km/h as overall best max speed achieved by lotterer during 2012 fuji race. If you consider also that TS is not placed immediatly next to the braking point, we can assume that 299.2 is just the max speed reported but for real lotterer's car may have passed 300km/h for good.

[silente]

Hi, as someone else noticed, if you see le mans graph, audi reports 315km/h as max speed on the first segmet of mulsanne. Only slowest and poor competitive lmp1 have that speed. Audi site speed values are just indicative and not trustworthy. On fiawec.alkamelsystems.com is reported 299.2km/h as overall best max speed achieved by lotterer during 2012 fuji race. If you consider also that TS is not placed immediatly next to the braking point, we can assume that 299.2 is just the max speed reported but for real lotterer's car may have passed 300km/h for good.

+1 !

[jsTrecu]

So with this increase in fuel consumption should we expect 10 lap stints maybe ?
If it's true that it's worth 5 seconds a lap, is a race pace of around 3:25 with a pole position close to 3:20 realistic ?

Duval was able to do 3:24.189 last year in the race but the average pace was closer to 3:30 than to 3:25.

[gwyllion]

Yes. If Audi runs their maximum power mapping, they will probably do 10 lap stints, whereas Toyota will probably do 11 lap stints.

[jsTrecu]

I see, thanks. I know we can't speak about lap times yet, but that 5 seconds improvement is bugging me, can't help it

[zanfo zanfagni]

Hard to say. If r18 will be able for real to hit over 340/km and have a decent downforce amount to run almost flat-out in the porsche sector maybe 3.20 could be possible in qualifying. Of course if they keep on sacrificing fuel efficency to have more power, a lÃ* peugeot 2010, can't be expected long stint like last year.

The actual situation reminds me 2010. Audi in the peugeot role, able to have a much better pace than rivals because of great power and better development and Toyota in audi role, slower and with a not so big updated car from the previous season.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Maybe Audi is sandbagging on their track maps too.

Thats a good one! Too much politicing going on, but when you see just how quick Audi can go it makes you wonder why not show this before? This 'secret pace' (as I call it) isnt such a secret anymore Toyota should have made a diesel.

[Flo aus N]

Originally Posted by TF110

Thats a good one! Too much politicing going on, but when you see just how quick Audi can go it makes you wonder why not show this before? This 'secret pace' (as I call it) isnt such a secret anymore Toyota should have made a diesel.

It was / is their good right, but they made the decision to go for a petrol engine and if it has less power than the Diesel, they made the wrong decision and Audi went the right way. simple is that

[TF110]

They must trust the ruling would favor a petrol car. Toyota make diesel cars across the world, but not a diesel hybrid. That aligns with their road philosophy (petrol hybrid) like quattro aligns with Audi's.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

They must trust the ruling would favor a petrol car. Toyota make diesel cars across the world, but not a diesel hybrid. That aligns with their road philosophy (petrol hybrid) like quattro aligns with Audi's.

If Toyota trust the rules favour petrol-powered cars, then why do they complain about the alleged "performance advantage" of the diesel-powered Audi's ?

[TF110]

Because there is an advantage according to them. Would is past tense and can be used to term something there is still yet to be. Like a future ruling that may take place; "The ruling would favor".

[GT6]

All the comments and statements from Toyota (if they do come from there) so far indicate that they have time on their hands but in today's world the fight is as often fought out off the track rather than on it and that is a real shame

[MyNameIsNigel]

Issue 1908 (of May 7th) of the French AutoHebdo includes a great shot (on page 32) of the exhaust outlet in the rear wheel well. It appears that the exhaust outlet exhibits an elongated shape extending along and parallel to the base of the rear tire and that the exhaust actually blows towards the base of the tire rather than towards the rear diffuser area. In that respect, the diagram that is shown on page 31 of the AutoHebdo magazine does not appear to be consistent with the actual picture of the exhaust outlet as the diagram tends to suggest that exhaust gases would be blown towards the diffuser area.

[gwyllion]

Bad timing... Audi releases a press article that stresses its accomplishments: Audi at Le Mans: Advantage through efficiency

[chernaudi]

2013 may as well read "advantage though going as fast as hell (and burning up quite a bit of fuel to do it)"

But to be fair, that's what Audi had to do to win in 2011--only way they went faster than Peugeot was to use more power, and to make more power, you usually have to burn up more fuel. So Audi is basically using Peugeot's old strategy of speed and power trumps efficiency, which is becoming more and more true in LM-style endurance racing; unlike NASCAR, teams can't count on cautions to re-rack the field/level the playing field. LM-style racing does tend to favor speed over fuel mileage, especially if the faster cars can build up a usable gap.

[Aysedasi]

Speed and power rules OK?

Personally, I like that philosophy.

But then I am an old dinosaur......