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12 Dec 2003, 12:44 (Ref:810103)
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#26 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 186
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DEREK WARWICK
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__________________
You will see light in the darkness 
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12 Dec 2003, 12:51 (Ref:810112)
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#27 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 71
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OVERSTEER How many possible Grand Prix wins did Eddie Irvine have to give up for MS? I can't remember many.
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12 Dec 2003, 14:42 (Ref:810221)
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#28 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 35
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You've all missed one great talent
Martin Donnelly! |
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__________________
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak out and remove all doubt
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12 Dec 2003, 14:49 (Ref:810228)
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#29 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,814
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I agree with all the suggestions so far, though if I had to pick five they'd be:
1. Amon 2. Behra - I think that he is about the fifth most successful driver (in terms of wins) in post-war non-championship races, so he seems pretty deserving to me! Was also pretty good in the big Maser Sports Cars too. 3. Brundle 4. Bellof 5. Difficult to pick one, maybe Derek Warwick. |
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12 Dec 2003, 14:56 (Ref:810232)
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#30 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,241
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Quote:
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12 Dec 2003, 17:50 (Ref:810430)
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#31 | ||
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Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
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I saw Chris Amon win 2 GP's....
1968 & '69 New Zealand Grand Prixs in his Ferrari  What about Jean-Pierre Jarier,he couldn't buy a win either. |
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12 Dec 2003, 18:09 (Ref:810444)
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#32 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,305
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I was going to add Jarier as I read through the list, good call Armco Bender.
Amon and Hailwood for sure, (two of my faves as well) Tom Pryce and Tony Brise deserve consideration. Salo I think was overrated but Lehto deserved a better chance. Jarier Amon Hailwood Warwick Brian Redman |
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__________________
Go Tribe!!!!
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12 Dec 2003, 18:14 (Ref:810449)
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#33 | ||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,924
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Behra, good choice. Sorry I missed him. I'll bang him in second...
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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13 Dec 2003, 09:02 (Ref:810807)
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#34 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,024
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Does Ivan Capelli deserve to be ranked amongst the best drivers never to win a race? Based on his performances/form with Leyton House/March, that is - not on the struggle he had with Ferrari.
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__________________
"You looked after that famous bank robber, didn't you? His picture was in all the papers." "It was when he escaped"
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13 Dec 2003, 17:04 (Ref:811027)
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#35 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 15,777
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I'd have to agree pretty much with what everyone's put so far. Not old enough to comment on people prior ro late 70's but Amon is the clear candidate there!
Have you all forgotten 'Alice' Alex Zanardi. If he's have got the breaks with Lotus and stayed around F1 for longer he wouldn't have ahd to come back to that Williams sitch in the end. Remember Schuey reckoned he would be the one to give him the most trouble based on their karting days!. Yes, Jyrki Jarvilehto is prob top of my list. He'd have won races for sure in '94 if not for test shunt that ruined it for him.Followed closely by Capelli, his confidence would've ooozed if he has held off Prost at Ricard that year. Donnelly, Warwick,'Steve Johnsson', 'Mega'Blundell, Modena,Jarier,Brundle. Maybe even Wendlinger? |
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__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?" "No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
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14 Dec 2003, 14:52 (Ref:811633)
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#36 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 128
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My 5 drivers would be:
1-Chris Amon 2-Jean-Pierre Jarier 3-Stefan Bellof 4-Jean Behra 5-Karl Wendlinger |
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15 Dec 2003, 04:18 (Ref:811922)
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#37 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,393
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Amon would have to be top. (Stewart said he was one of the two drivers he regarded most highly of all his opposition in the 70's)
Of the others it probably gets harder depending on what generation you grew up in but Martin Brundle would be one of the five. Bellof had a career that was cut short because of an accident as was Brise and Tom Pryce so I'm inclined not to pick them. Had their career's run full term (or a few years longer)they most certainly would have won GP's. Hailwood was a very good driver but never had a car to match his skill except perhaps in his final year when he ran a third McLaren in Yardley colours. The accident at the 'Ring finished that. Jarier was very good and had some really bad luck in a couple of GP's he had dominated. Any driver who had a couple of races where they had the field shot to peices and then had appalling luck inn terms of running out of fuel etc, and were consistently quick in their generation could be termed one of the five. derek Warwick had a heap of ability but never managed to get a good car on a consistent basis. when he did get a good car the team had other problems. Johansson is another one. Most of the drivers who managed to outrun their team mates consistently and score podiums but never got a win could be candidates but how you actually finalise the list is hard. In yhe most modern generation the cars have had so much influence therir have been very few that have allowed individual brilliance to shine in the terms I have described above. Perhaps only Fisichella would be a mention in such terms. (Webber's career hasn't been long enough yet.) |
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15 Dec 2003, 15:11 (Ref:812243)
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#38 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,512
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Re: Re: Top 5 Drivers without a win
Quote:
Last edited by climb; 15 Dec 2003 at 15:12. |
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__________________
You got to learn how to fall, before you learn to fly P.Simon
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16 Dec 2003, 11:35 (Ref:812978)
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#39 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,814
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Yes, exactly. And would the Ferraris that Eddie got to drive been as good without Michael's input and the group of people he brought with him?
Eddie wasn't bad, but there are several drivers who have no GP wins who I would rate above him. |
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16 Dec 2003, 21:35 (Ref:813464)
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#40 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
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J.J.Lehto?
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17 Dec 2003, 12:51 (Ref:813989)
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#41 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,814
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I'd second that. Perhaps he could be my fifth choice!
Fantatic drive he did at Le Mans in the wet in 1995 and he's been quick in just about everything he's driven since. |
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17 Dec 2003, 13:34 (Ref:814037)
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#42 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 290
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Why has no one mentioned Perry McCarthy
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__________________
Help! Anything above is my own opinion as a private individual, not linked in any way to anything else I may be involved with.
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17 Dec 2003, 13:38 (Ref:814040)
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#43 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,147
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Because he's hardly a top driver
 How many F1 races did he drive, let alone win? He entered 8 races and did not even qualify for a single one of those.
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17 Dec 2003, 21:35 (Ref:814525)
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#44 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
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Have Alex Caffi and Pierluigi Martini come up yet? I thought they weren't too bad either.
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17 Dec 2003, 21:42 (Ref:814531)
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#45 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,128
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bellof - he would have been an addition to the great 4 of the late 80s
donnelly - although many overlook him for alesi (who debuted in the same race) as far as new talent had donnelly not had his accident and had he got a drive worthy of points he would have starred. caffi - he always showed great talent but never got to show it all. brundle - never got the right drive at the right time and kinda like mcnish, faded away because of it. pryce - never won a championship f1 race but then again he was driving a shadow. if he lived longer and got the right drive i reckon he would have been a top contender of the early 80s. |
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__________________
speed delays my life.
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17 Dec 2003, 21:46 (Ref:814534)
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#46 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,128
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Quote:
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__________________
speed delays my life.
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17 Dec 2003, 21:56 (Ref:814546)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,035
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Just dug out an old Autosport supplement appropriately titled "Formula One's Ten-Tenths!" And it lists 10 drivers who shouldve and shouldn't have won.
10 who should: Chris Amon Jean Behra Eugenio Castellotti Andrea de Cesaris Teo Fabi Mike Hailwood Eddie Irvine (Its fromm 1998 the year before Eddie won) Jean Pierre Jarier Tom Pryce Alex Zanardi By contrast heres those that it says shouldn't have won: Giancarlo Baghetti Jo Bonnier Thierry Boutsen Peter Gethin Jean Pierre Jabouille Luigi Musso Jochen Mass Alessandro Nannini Olivier Panis Maurice Trintigant |
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__________________
le bad boy
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17 Dec 2003, 21:59 (Ref:814553)
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#48 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,128
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I FOR ONE THOUGHT BOUTSEN WAS A VERY GOOD DRIVER!
darn caps lock! |
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__________________
speed delays my life.
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17 Dec 2003, 22:04 (Ref:814561)
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#49 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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amon without a doubt...he had victories in sportscars, tasman, non-championship f1 races, but a world championship gp win eluded him in most cases due to cruel misfortune....
courage, bellof, pryce, and brise were drivers whose careers were cut tragically short and their full potential was never realized... jarier would be up there....he had at least 2 wcgps in the bag before the car crapped out on him... jackie oliver, vic elford....great sports car drivers..... |
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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17 Dec 2003, 22:32 (Ref:814603)
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#50 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
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I thought Boutsen was a good driver as well and Nannini and Mass...
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