CTCRC Pre-93 regs subset

[Al Weyman]

Nice, I would like to do one of those myself, bit too complicated for my little brain though.

[R59]

Since when as a streamlined Morris Oxford been a Sportscar?

A Lotus Elan was a sportscar. A MGB was a BMC Abomination. The last sportscar that MG (the original MG) made was the MGA with it's Twin Cam.

That's another story.

Does that allow an XJS in?

Just being devils advocate....

Rob.

[Peter Mallett]

Rob,

The XJS was homologated as a Touring Car in 1982(?) again I believe it was "uncle Tom" who got the homologation after his RX7 exercise and then used it to good effect in Group 2 then Group A guise.

Looking at the timing of your post I suspect you were a bit tired. Are you asking if the MGBGT is a 3 door coupe rather than a GT? I think you'll find it was never homologated as anything but a GT thus it doesn't fit with the regs. Likewise Lotus never produced a touring car. Mind you asking a lotus to "tour" would be stretching its reliability record somewhat.

I suspect the MG Maestro and the Metro Turbo would fit if you really want to use an MG.

[Al Weyman]

The XJS would be acceptable as it is in the other earlier championships. I disagree with the MGB, it became a proper car when they fitted the Rover V8, shame they did not do the same thing with the Stag. I used to own Healy 3000's had two of them a 100/6 and a Mk2a and when they discontinued them and sttuck the engine in the MG(C) it was a bloody joke. It was about a foot further forward than the Healy and understeer had to be experienced to be believed, that was a dog!

We had several Maesto Turbos out with us in the ModProds and I have vivid recollections of watching Colin Crump wheel spinning from the Mallory Hairpin to the Elbo only to loose it bg time and barrel roll the thing towards the crowd (where I was standing!) and it ended up on its roof perched on the safty fence with poor old Colin hanging there upside down about 6ft in the air upside down with fuel dripping out as I recollect, not nice. Darell Davies the MG man tried one as well as did another guy and they were all a total waste of time.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

We had several Maesto Turbos out with us in the ModProds and I have vivid recollections of watching Colin Crump wheel spinning from the Mallory Hairpin to the Elbo only to loose it bg time and barrel roll the thing towards the crowd (where I was standing!) and it ended up on its roof perched on the safty fence with poor old Colin hanging there upside down about 6ft in the air upside down with fuel dripping out as I recollect, not nice. Darell Davies the MG man tried one as well as did another guy and they were all a total waste of time.

Can't remember the guys name (Colin Francis?) but got a Maestro Turbo to work incredibly well in Super Road Saloons, just as the BRSCC killed it off because it had old cars in it (bet they wish they had them now!). The point is they CAN be made to work really well, his was beating all sorts of 'better' machinery.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I used to own Healy 3000's had two of them a 100/6 and a Mk2a and when they discontinued them and sttuck the engine in the MG(C) it was a bloody joke. It was about a foot further forward than the Healy and understeer had to be experienced to be believed, that was a dog!

Off topic comment alert I have to type this or my brain will explode! A common mistake, it wasn't the same engine! The understeer was solved at a later date but you are right it was never intended as anything other than a high speed tourer. Having said that I recall Robb Gravett doing some great things with one in his club racing days. Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

[Tony Crossley]

Originally Posted by racing59

Since when as a streamlined Morris Oxford been a Sportscar?

A Lotus Elan was a sportscar. A MGB was a BMC Abomination. The last sportscar that MG (the original MG) made was the MGA with it's Twin Cam.

That's another story.

Does that allow an XJS in?

Just being devils advocate....

Rob.

Oooh, a bit harsh, espeically I've spent the last 3 years racing an MGB GT with the MGCC - 4 cylinder, properly developed - made a really nice, neutral, easy to drive and was respectably quick. 140bhp, 876kg, yoko A-48Rs -great fun on a trackday scaring Elises and stuff.
Will look at the regs in detiail - The RX7 is already running a single turbo (which makes things a lot easier compared to the sequentials). Was plannig to do the DDMC - but I like the option to take it to other events as well - if I can get the build done so it matches both sets of regs.

[Al Weyman]

As things stand I would have thought that may exclude it then Tony as it has to have the original manifolds and turbos although they can be changed to a patterned type of the same size (??). I was looking at this model but came to the conclusion the twin turbo was just too damn complex. Why don't you request a waiver to take one turbo off if you are still keen. I love the looks of that car though and recon it could make a reasonably priced race car.

Different head was it on the MGC Peter, de-siamesed ports maybe, still a C series engine though was'nt it? I used to look after one for a mate and had to er, road test it once or twice, actually not a bad old tub as it goes.

[Tony Crossley]

Ah, may have to stick with DDMC then for the moment.

[Highside]

RE: the RX7 (FD3S) running in Pre-93:

I don't think anyone would object if you applied to run a single turbo, if it was, for example, the same set up as that run on the earlier Turbo II (FC3S) model, which despite the name had a single turbo.

However, the requirement to run the standard intercooler (interwarmer?), might just scupper any advantage anyway.

Great cars though - still miss mine....

[Al Weyman]

I personally don't think it would get sanctioned thinking about it. The twin turbo set up was an attempt to make a lagless streetable car the smaller turbo would not be required on the race car but as its possible to get 500bhp from this lightweight with the single turbo set up I don't think its on really, just my opinion for what its worth but as you say on the standard intercooler its probably academic anyhow. You could however (with in the regs) de-turbo it completly and drop a class.

[Eric Falce]

I have someone who is realy into the Mazda thing,how good is the RX7,would it be allowed in the pre 93 series.

Eric.

[Al Weyman]

Of course why not, head honcho Stacy has one after all!

Incidently it has occured to me looking around at possible cars for this series, it could really become a good budget series.

Reason I say this, look at car prices. Take a pre 74 car, RS2000, MK1 Capri, Dolomite sprints, dare I say old Chevy Camro's and Mustangs even good Minis, all worth a few quid these days. Take a step up to the clubs pre 81 Group 1, here you have SD1's, Capris, Avenger Tigers, XJ's etc (all getting rarer, harder to find a sound example and expensive). Now start looking at the price of secondhand cars that would be elligible for the pre-93's, not old enough to be worth bundles and not new enough to be worth a lot either especially if they are hot models and virtually impossible for young guys to insure, they go for peanuts.

I was offered a solid VW GTi for around £200 the other day, nice base for a car and at that price very doable (anyone want it I'm too Camroed up at the moment!). Take the talk about the RX7, I was interested in looking at a Rotary (I get these odd impulsions) and for a sound looking twin turbo you could pick one up around a grand and what a stunning looking car even featured in Too Fast, Too Furious 11 I believe although newer models were about.

Just a thought.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Of course why not, head honcho Stacy has one after all!

An he's running it in Pre-93 next year
If there are any questions, Eric, get your chum to PM me. (Or you PM me for an email address).

[Al Weyman]

I will add to my pevious post about why I think this could be a really good value series.

A lot of early 90's cars started to get into the ECU technology and if one of those goes down the car can be virtually valueless except for racing of course where you can do away with the technology if you desire and back engineer it on to carbs, also the rust bug desease that eflicted Vauxhalls, Fiats. Lancias, 70's and 80's yanks for example was by and large cured by then due to people pressure for 10 years perforation warranties so what this means there are pleanty of good solid bases for a race car available very cheaply, way to go in my humble opinion!

[johnw]

Makes a lot of sense Allan. We must contract you as the series PR

[Al Weyman]

I do research these things and its the conclusion I have come to, any later it starts getting expensive as who wants to start attacking a perfectly good 5 or 6 grand road car to turn into a racer and any earlier its both expensive and can be a nightmare sourcing a sound shell and parts so makes sense to me.

[Tim Wilkinson]

There's also a lot of Roadsaloons and the like from that age group still floating around and selling for peanuts. A cheap and easy start; already some tuning but not so much as to make the car ineligible. They might get out-gunned in the likes of DTRC, but would be much nearer the pace in pre-93.

[Highside]

Originally Posted by teej

There's also a lot of Roadsaloons and the like from that age group still floating around and selling for peanuts. A cheap and easy start; already some tuning but not so much as to make the car ineligible. They might get out-gunned in the likes of DTRC, but would be much nearer the pace in pre-93.

Exactly. If I was starting from scratch, I would definetly be looking for a good solid Rover Tomcat or the like. Whats the betting that a good portion of the grid is made up by these sorts of cars before the end of the year?

Also, following from Al's point - there are quite a few interesting cheep-ish 4WD Japanese cars from Pre-93 that fit quite well as well, such as the Nissan Pulsar GTiR, Toyota Celica 4WD & Subaru Legacy Turbo, any of which you can pick up for not very much and with a bit of work, go racing. OK, so they are a bit heavier and suffer from having small wheels as standard (and hence will need small brakes under the rules), but in the wet surely they would have an edge?

I like the idea of period 4WD, RWD & FWD all racing against each other, and surely this will help make good racing?

[johnw]

Quick update on the RX7's.
If a series 3 (swoopy batmobile look alike) then it must run both the original turbos.
If a series 2 (944 Look alike) then the original single turbo is OK.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Highside

Also, following from Al's point - there are quite a few interesting cheep-ish 4WD Japanese cars

No 4WD in Pre-93 Rob.

[Highside]

Originally Posted by johnw

Quick update on the RX7's.
If a series 3 (swoopy batmobile look alike) then it must run both the original turbos.
If a series 2 (944 Look alike) then the original single turbo is OK.

Just thinking outloud, but if the RX7's are allowed in, does that mean 944's and 968's are also admisable?

I know this is going to turn into a "when is a touring car not a touring car" thing, but I was just wondering.

Cheers

Rob

[Highside]

Originally Posted by johnw

No 4WD in Pre-93 Rob.

Ah. That solves that one then...

[Al Weyman]

Highside, no 4WD's allowed in. Opps sorry, cross posts you already sussed it!

[johnw]

Porsches were never homologated as touring cars , so no.