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Old 7 Apr 2012, 23:25 (Ref:3055098)   #26
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Well, if those two clowns, Bahar and Boullier do wind up cancelling each other out, Fernandes is one of the candidates in the right place to pick up the pieces. We could have the Lotus 3.0 headed up by Fernandes afterall.
The people responsible are the politicians who control Proton. They funded all the Lotus v Lotus, and the slap a Lotus sticker on anything that moves mania. There were two Lotus F1 teams, now none wants to be Lotus! Will they ever stop digging a bigger hole for themselves?
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Old 7 Apr 2012, 23:48 (Ref:3055102)   #27
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IMHO a little of the blame lays with the FIA who should have never excepted two teams with the same name in the first place..
Officially, it was Team Lotus and Renault. Seems above board legally. Maybe some more naming regs are needed.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 10:01 (Ref:3055240)   #28
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In Danny Bahr's ambition to drive Lotus up market based on a massive motorsport sticker plan he seems to be destroying what Lotus stands for.

To me Lotus as a road car manufacturer is based on a racing heritage. That heritage was built up on light weight very good handling cars with not necessarily the best engines but one that was well packaged. Lotus was also one of the most innovative car makers in the business.

What we see now is a big spending campaign based on putting lotus stickers everywhere with no regard to its heritage.

The current car company has been spending this money based on future sales of new cars that will compete in a different market but will those buyers be interested, and dropping the current Elise based cars, that to me were a proper Lotus that I imagine Colin Chapman would have been proud of.
At the end of all this I hope there will be a Lotus left for somebody to rebuild into what it should be.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 10:27 (Ref:3055252)   #29
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So Tony Fernandes might end up after all with a "Team Lotus". He still owns the rights for this name, doesn't he? Maybe he should even buy "Lotus Cars". Imagine the headlines: "Caterham buys Lotus".

But I really hope that Bahar won't leave a path of destruction. The Artist formerly known as Toleman might be just fine, thanks to sponsorship by Microsoft and Unilever. But what about the teams in junior formulaes? The whole situation makes me want to shout a big **** you to Lotus Cars and Dani Bahar.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 10:45 (Ref:3055266)   #30
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I dont think Fernandes owns "Team Lotus" any longer, no.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 11:49 (Ref:3055304)   #31
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I haven't been this enraged since Lotus put a badge on a Talbot Sunbeam.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 12:23 (Ref:3055316)   #32
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So.. why would Proton provide such a large loan to the F1 team, then decide to stop sponsoring the F1 team? Or is the 'loan' actually the settlement for the parting of the ways?
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 13:06 (Ref:3055338)   #33
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Go figure...
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 13:09 (Ref:3055339)   #34
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I haven't been this enraged since Lotus put a badge on a Talbot Sunbeam.
But at least it had some Lotus engineering input compared with today's badge jobs.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 13:56 (Ref:3055355)   #35
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Oh! I want that car.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 15:02 (Ref:3055377)   #36
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I haven't been this enraged since Lotus put a badge on a Talbot Sunbeam.
You obviously haven't seen these......

Youngman Lotus

http://chinaautoweb.com/2011/02/with...eeding-700000/
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 15:42 (Ref:3055388)   #37
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Yeah. We also have Chinese MGs. What's that all about?
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 16:37 (Ref:3055402)   #38
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You obviously haven't seen these......

Youngman Lotus

http://chinaautoweb.com/2011/02/with...eeding-700000/
So is this one of Danny Bahar's new Lotus?
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 16:57 (Ref:3055406)   #39
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Our local police had a Lotus Sunbeam painted up as a standard Talbot panda car.
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 17:43 (Ref:3055429)   #40
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Were these ever raced?
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Old 8 Apr 2012, 18:13 (Ref:3055442)   #41
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Were these ever raced?
Apologies for going off topic but in answer-

At international level, in 1980 & '81 an Italian Jolly Club entered car did some rounds of ETCC in Gp2 spec. Apart from that it won the World Rally Championship for Talbot in '81...... Lotus certainly did a lot of work on the development of road versions as the engineers were often to be seen having a play around Norfolk!
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 00:44 (Ref:3055589)   #42
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Were these ever raced?
They were certainly rallied, and probably raced, but not in standard specification.
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 00:52 (Ref:3055594)   #43
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Our local police had a Lotus Sunbeam painted up as a standard Talbot panda car.
Did it ever catch you ?
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 06:55 (Ref:3055651)   #44
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In all the stories ive read there has been no mention of the 35million loan payment from proton to the F1 team..... this sounds very odd.. both JA and joe saward have never mentioned this ...... dubious id say Tony Fernandas has walked away from all this lotus business as he got a sweetener for his air line from the malaysian government. though id bet hed like to buy the elise production line ....
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 06:56 (Ref:3055652)   #45
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I haven't been this enraged since Lotus put a badge on a Talbot Sunbeam.
bad example, one of the best hot hatches ever made and like the lotus carlton and the lotus cortina cars that lotus can be proud of
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 08:14 (Ref:3055681)   #46
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Bahar being under pressure from all angles.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/home/builder_...ahar_1_1343332

Where will this lead? Fernandes picks the company up for £1 and takes on the debt? Moves the Caterham brand into Hethel and makes the Lotus 7 again? Just outside the Hethel airfield boundary is the Hethel Engineering Centre..seperate to Lotus. Caterham cars have their concept design offices in there already along with other companies. Until recently WSR team P1 Motorsport were there too. I agree Lotus should be making lightweight, bottom end sports cars for the masses. This concept of selling cheap Fernandes is a master at...judging by Air Asia growth.
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 08:32 (Ref:3055689)   #47
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In all the stories ive read there has been no mention of the 35million loan payment from proton to the F1 team..... this sounds very odd.. both JA and joe saward have never mentioned this ...... dubious id say Tony Fernandas has walked away from all this lotus business as he got a sweetener for his air line from the malaysian government. though id bet hed like to buy the elise production line ....
Isnt Mr Sylt somehow still plugged into Mr Ecclestone's fountain of news?

Mr Saward has not mentioned this at all, and in reality he and his blog have been the only ones willing/able to dissect the financial gymnastics that seem to be going on behind the scenes at the Lotii, Force India or anyone else of interest.
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 10:24 (Ref:3055736)   #48
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Take a look at this and the links from it make for interesting reading. You want to know what is in an F1 factory well the answers are here.

http://www.pitpass.com/45967-The-true-value-of-Lotus-F1
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 11:08 (Ref:3055750)   #49
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From the articles in Pitpass I am wondering why is the loan replacing the sponsorship.

The logical explanation is that Proton is trying to get out of Danny Bahar's big spending plans, and by giving the loan instead of sponsorship gives Lotus F1 the time to find alternative backers to help pay off the loan.

If Lotus F1 do not pay the loan then we might have a Proton F1 team in a few years time.
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Old 9 Apr 2012, 11:17 (Ref:3055755)   #50
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Isnt Mr Sylt somehow still plugged into Mr Ecclestone's fountain of news?

Mr Saward has not mentioned this at all, and in reality he and his blog have been the only ones willing/able to dissect the financial gymnastics that seem to be going on behind the scenes at the Lotii, Force India or anyone else of interest.
I should have been clearer Both James Allen and Joe Saward have never written on their blogs about this owed money and i thought it a dubious report though now i may need to retink after reading the pdf files... time will tell
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