Don't race on the streets

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Personally i think giving these street racers somewhere to have fun, will reduce the impact they make. Skaters get skate parks, golfers get golf courses, why not set up government funded places for thse peole.

so do we give rapists and paedophiles somewhere to break the law in a lawful way because they can't keep it in their pants?

why should my tax's go to areas for people to go so they "don't break the law" because they can't keep it in their pants, so to speak?

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

so do we give rapists and paedophiles somewhere to break the law in a lawful way because they can't keep it in their pants?

why should my tax's go to areas for people to go so they "don't break the law" because they can't keep it in their pants, so to speak?

Um, you are aware there is already 'some' places to do this? Rape is Illegal EVERYWHERE. I don't remember there being a house open once a month with children there for dirty old men (and women, what, you thought it was just a guy thing?).....exaclty. There is track facilities, my point is there should be more, and they should be 24/7, not just a few hours a night, once a month (weekly in the eastern states, but that doesn't really help me)

[garcon]

I think comparing boy racers with rapists is getting just a little excessive, don't you?

Stealthy, I don't know how old you are, but I'd take a wild guess that you're nowhere near old or experienced enough to have thefaintest clue what your limits are behind the wheel.

And to be safe on the roads you need to drive within other road users' limits, not just your own.

I've nothing against enthusiasts gathering in car parks at semi-organised events to have a bit of fun - especially if it means they're less likely to do something stupid on the road.

And yes I was eighteen once... and stupid... and got away with it... in fact got away with far more than you can today. But I was lucky.

[STEALTHY]

I'm 22. I don't go around telling everyone i can outdrive them like theres no tomorrow.

I do however, know MY car, and MY limits driving that car. I've clocked up about the same amount of K's as most couriers would do (in my small time driving, going by my age), but that has absolutely nothing to do with a drivers capabilities. Some people can drive, others just think they can.

Throw me in a Ferarri and i would not even attempt to drive the way i drive my usual car, as i would come unstuck.


The fact my car is still straight has to say something. I can't count on one hand the number of times i've had to avoid people driving into me.

[Axeman444]

i think you miss my point, rape and street racing/negligent driving are both Illegal, why provide more places at tax payers expense so people can do things they aren't supposed to do in the first place

you shouldn't do it, period. the excuse to do it shouldn't be "we have no where else to go without driving for 3 hours". there is no excuse. it shouldn't happen

[STEALTHY]

OK then, so the discussion is over. Street racing is illegal, but that doesn't change the fact that i want somewhere to do burnouts and run 1/4 mile times, which is 100% LEGAL off street.

Rape is illegal no matter where it is done, as with paedophilea, so stop comparing them.

By comparing them to activities that are perfectly legal in the right environment, you've lost any respect i gave to your opinions in this thread. And i'm sure most other people will think the same. Its like Guns, legal at a shooting range, but you can't just go around shooting out lights around your neighbourhood

[Axeman444]

yes but my taxes don't go towards shooting ranges...

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by kramer

I've studied statistics; only about a third can be better than average. One third will be within what's called a standard deviation of the norm (that's 'average') and another third will be worse.

What? For a normal distribution (the so-called 'bell curve') 50% of the population will be above the mean (or 'average'). Skew the distribution & the percentage of the population above the mean can be any value approaching, but never reaching, 100%.

Whatever the shape of the curve, 50% of the population will be above the median, 50% below, with the mode being the most frequently occurring value......but you knew that, didn't you?

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

yes but my taxes don't go towards shooting ranges...

Your Taxes go to alot of things. These shooting ranged aren't privately funded (not the ones i've seen anyway)

The point is, just because you don't enjoy a car as others do, they shouldn't miss out. Personally i think golf courses are a waste of time and money, skate parks etc.

You seem to think i'm trying to justify the illegal act of street racing. I'm not, i mearly pointed out, had there been somewhere more readily avalaible, there wouldn't be deaths on the roads from it (sure there would still be a few, but not the many we have seen lately)

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

You seem to think i'm trying to justify the illegal act of street racing. I'm not, i mearly pointed out, had there been somewhere more readily avalaible, there wouldn't be deaths on the roads from it (sure there would still be a few, but not the many we have seen lately)

after reading through a lot of this thread, much of what you say doesnt happen, there are two high quality race track's around 45minutes-1 hour either side of were i live, yet the region were i live, north wales (that includes gwynedd, conwy and denbigshire and anglesey) have the highest rate of fatalities associated with speed.

and it's not just young people, middle aged men who think they are valentino rossi on their bike's do a pretty good job of pasting themselve's onto the road as well, the point is the facilities for the "street racer's" are there were i live and very close by and they dont use them.

so the proof is in the pudding, having a race track nearby doesnt reduce death's at all, not long ago a 17 year old who i knew was killed in a crash and it was on national news, fact is although he was my friend and the driver was unhurt, he was killed because he didnt wear a seatbelt and that was not mentioned.

problem is a lot of young people dont wear their seatbelt's, now that would reduce death's by a fair bit, not building place's were the chav's can go and drive like prat's and mine and other people's expense is not the answer, the only way people learn is when they see or are involved in a bad crash and ive seen one family member being pulled out of a car after being T-boned by a lorry doing around 50mph, that's why i dont drive quickly on the road's because ive seen what can happen and its not nice when it happen's toa family member.

plus the fact that my father was in the police force for 32 year's and my brother being a paramedic they have seen god knows how many people racing on the road's and killing themselve's and other's around them.

[STEALTHY]

All of what you mention is people doing things by themselves.

The theory of a 'race' is between 2 or more vehicles. Going to the drags by yourself, in the same car, will soon get tiring (after you get your best reaction time possible, and the best time the car/bike can make), and your not going to go there day in day out just to get the same result.

I know for me, the incling of racing would be to race against other cars, either for fun, or for bragging rights (although my car wouldn't beat many, as its mostly stock). I don't race on the streets, and i got my current car shortly before our track closed, and havn't had an opportunity to run it (going by a mate of mine who has a similar setup, he ran a high 14, and i'd expect mine to be a low 15)


I asked before to compare the statistics of Drunk drivers mess, to that of street racers (and burnouts mearly because thats what interests me more than racing) and no-one could/would, as they are massively higher for drink drivers.
Cops and paramedics will tell you that Drunk drivers are the worst, but obviously for arguements sake, it would be much more benificial for the people saying **** getting a track, to say that the problem would still be there even with a track.

Go back a few years (even in other countrys) when skating was the new in thing. People were skating everywhere, schools, librarys etc, but now with a skatepark every 2nd suburb its been massively minimised. That and the fact the legal aspect of competition is televised, getting people more interested in joining comps, not just skating around the concrete jungle as they call it.

[Andrew Hornsey]

Stealthy,

Just because you know YOUR limits, and drive within them, doesn't mean to say that you are safe in doing so. All it takes is one of your soccer mums, or an old couple with poor eyesight not to see you and you are in serious brown stuff!

And I am sorry, but the attitude of "there is nothing near by for me" just sucks. So tax payers are supposed to pay for your fun. It seems to be that people these days expect things to be proviided for them and not have to work for them.

Work hard and play hard - if that means driving a long distance to get to the place you can take part in your chosen pass time, then so be it.

I undersatnd that in the UK we are lucky in that we do not normally have to travel too far, but I get the feeling you would resent having to travel more than 15 minutes.

If enough people locally to you want the same sort of facility, then start your own club, get affiliated to CAMS (It will make the insurance side of things much more cost effective), and approach a local business man with cash to spare to develope one of the areas you say are available. If it makes financial sense, he will back it and make some money out of it. If it doesn't make sense, then why should 1000's of dollars be spent for just a few people to enjoy themselves.

The sad fact of live is we can't always have what we want. If you have to break the law to get your fun, expect to pay the consiquenses and do not blame the authorities for not providing you with the venue you want, the soccer mum who was partly to blame, or the partially blind and deaf pensioners that didn't see you because of a disability.

Right, I am off to lobby my local MP for free Ferrari's for all at the tax payers expense! :-)

Andrew

[MosquitoByte]

For 40 years, I've mada a habit of NOT driving, so I'm not biased in regards to "who's better at what age" when it comes to driving. IMHO, 8-% of drivers on the road, be they in cars, trucks, on motorbikes or push-bikes for that matter - are morons.

Truckies drive like they own the road.

Motorcyclists ride like there is no road.

Anyone with anything more than a bog standard 4-cylinder (perhaps a standard 6 if towing regularly), has more power at their call than they should ever need.

Face it folks - Cars are there to get you from A to B. If you're in a hurry to get to your funeral, back off, you're grave site ain't moving anywhere soon.

Why don't I drive? Because I had the sense to realise that when given a loud pedal, I lost all sense of intelligence.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hornsey

Stealthy,

Just because you know YOUR limits, and drive within them, doesn't mean to say that you are safe in doing so. All it takes is one of your soccer mums, or an old couple with poor eyesight not to see you and you are in serious brown stuff!

And I am sorry, but the attitude of "there is nothing near by for me" just sucks. So tax payers are supposed to pay for your fun. It seems to be that people these days expect things to be proviided for them and not have to work for them.

Work hard and play hard - if that means driving a long distance to get to the place you can take part in your chosen pass time, then so be it.

I undersatnd that in the UK we are lucky in that we do not normally have to travel too far, but I get the feeling you would resent having to travel more than 15 minutes.

If enough people locally to you want the same sort of facility, then start your own club, get affiliated to CAMS (It will make the insurance side of things much more cost effective), and approach a local business man with cash to spare to develope one of the areas you say are available. If it makes financial sense, he will back it and make some money out of it. If it doesn't make sense, then why should 1000's of dollars be spent for just a few people to enjoy themselves.

The sad fact of live is we can't always have what we want. If you have to break the law to get your fun, expect to pay the consiquenses and do not blame the authorities for not providing you with the venue you want, the soccer mum who was partly to blame, or the partially blind and deaf pensioners that didn't see you because of a disability.

Right, I am off to lobby my local MP for free Ferrari's for all at the tax payers expense! :-)

Andrew

I don't race, i do burnouts, low speed burnouts. I don't know how many times i can say it, but even if said soccer mum manages to get anywhere near my car, there probably wouldn't even be any or her paint on my car. I never said i remove the risk, i said i minimise the risk!

I have never gotten a cent for anything. I have worked my arse off to have the car i have. I couldn't get anything from the government, yet a friend of mine who was 10% aboriginal was getting Aus Study paymenyt, AND Ab Study payemnts....that seems fair to me.

I have suggested that the government (be it national or state) have some sort of part in the finacial aspect. Skaters were doing what they like illegally, now every 2nd suburb has a skate park. Taggers were breaking the law doing what they like, yet they are now providing places for this aswell.

I have driven 3 hours before for a burnout comp, and even driven to sydney, so its not like i have a problem with driving further. If the government and Police have any seious intentions or curbing the street racing problem, they need to take a whole different approach. Even from a young age, when people are told they can't have something, they do what they can to have it. Same theory here, say people can't race (legally) and they will do it illegally. Give them somewhere to do it, and i'm sure you would take out over half of the people who before would consider street racing.

Adelaide International Raceway is part owned by Bob Jane (or Rodney Jane, not sure who is incharge atm), and has been under par for many years now. We have the track, but there is a dispute in ownership, which is why no-one has spent money on it. Thats our ONLY track (we have mallala, but that is a circuit, not a drag track). I bet the people from South of adelaide who would normally have to drive for 3 hours to get to this track would think, why bother wasting all that time, when you can get a quick fix on the street. Yet if there way a local track, they would surely make the effort.

Thats a whole other subject, letting blind a deaf elderly people still drive on our roads. Ever see the story of the Elderly guy who blacked out (knowing he was prone to blacking out), crossed the median strip, had a head on crash with a family of 5, killing them all, but he survived. And to think, he didn't even recieve Jail time. Thats whats sick in this world.

Now your just taking the ****, lobbying for ferarris, all i suggested was a small amount of funding that clearly other areas are getting to stop the illegal activity.

[Axeman444]

mate, the entire population of australia lives under the same conditions as you, whether that be with or without Austudy and AbStudy.

If you are only doing low speed burnouts, why do you need a drag track to do it? I suggest you:
1) look up your favourite real estate agent
2) find 5 acres (or less if not required to be so large) that suit your cost vs distance from home factor and buy it
3) pave it (or leave it as dirt and save on tyre costs)
4) do burnouts
5) problem solved. its even big enough to do donuts and some drifting!!!

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

mate, the entire population of australia lives under the same conditions as you, whether that be with or without Austudy and AbStudy.

If you are only doing low speed burnouts, why do you need a drag track to do it? I suggest you:
1) look up your favourite real estate agent
2) find 5 acres (or less if not required to be so large) that suit your cost vs distance from home factor and buy it
3) pave it (or leave it as dirt and save on tyre costs)
4) do burnouts
5) problem solved. its even big enough to do donuts and some drifting!!!

Obviously the whole of Australia doesn't live under the same conditions. He suggested that all i want is a handout, which is a stupid assumption. When certain groups (funnily enough, the ones with a higher voting power) get more over someone else, you can't claim that to be the same conditions.

Nearly all DRAG tracks have facilities for burnouts aswell as drags (and sometimes drifting too), this thread is about street racers. Having such a track will curb the racers, and will give people a place to do burnouts.

Not everyone had things handed to them, my dad actually rang up centrelink and found out all about AbStudy, only then to be told that cause i'm not black, i would never get a cent.


It would still be illegal even on private land. Look up the laws sometime. Or is it legal to murder someone as long as its on private property now?

[Andrew Hornsey]

Stealth,

What I meant was this:

If you want it, work for it. Just beacuse others get things handed to them on a plate, it doesn't mean that you will. Life isn't that fair.

If enough people want it, it WILL be viable for a local business man to fork out the money for the site AND the insurance.

The skateboard argument doesn't hold. Since when has skateboarding been as dangerous as street racing.

And with regards to burnouts, sorry but they CAN be dangerous. If you haev a mechanical failure on your car, and/or the car suddly gets grip, you will be flying off in the direction you are pointing. Also, tyre failures whilst you are doing it wil through off all sorts of rubbish - that could easily kill. Don't tell me that isn't dangerous.

And yes, there are lots of dangerous people on the roads, like soccer mum. Street racers do not need to be another danger added.

Finally, I thought you guys in Aus had heard of sarcasm - thats what the bit about the Ferrari was

Have a good day, and I hope someone stumps up the money for you to find the right place to do your thing.

Andrew

[GORDON STREETER]

STEALTHY I don't think you will get a lot of sympathy on this forum for what you do. I can do burnouts /donuts/ possibly better than you. but I don't need to as I don't have to prove anything . Today I heard that one of my customers has been killed and his wife isn't expected to live, both in their mid 30s with two kids under 10. They were hit head on by a boy racer going too fast for his talent. Grow up and go racing on the proper tracks and you might just find you may like it. You might also find that you ain't as good as you think you are !!!!!

[Axeman444]

no i mean people who do not get abstudy or austudy (ie in this case you AND me) live under the same conditions. thats life. some work hard for nothing. thats life. some don't work and have money to burn. thats life.

this thread is about street racers, but most of my points revolve around your comment about you "droping a skid", and the comment regarding governments should give street racing/burnout/hooning enthusiasts somewhere to do it off public roads. both of these comments i object to, hence my posts.

i don't understand why doing the above on private land is illegal, BUT, if it was, why would you expect that to be so. think about your answer and apply that same answer to why it is illegal on public roads. THEN, apply that thought to the reasoning behind why i object to your statements. THEN you will have an understanding of where i am coming from

[STEALTHY]

Obviously i'm not getting through, This thread is about street racers. The cause to the problem in this state is the lack of a track facility, and has been proven even by the police themselves saying that it has gotten worse since AIR closed. This is more than likely the cause in other states, as there isn't 100 tracks, there may be 1 or 2 per state if that. Thats the answer to the problem, as with any problem tho, the will never be a complete solution, and people will still street race, but people speed, drink drive etc all the time. That kills people too.


You object to it because you don't do it yourself. Which would be the same about anything really. I'm sure if someone came to your door and asked you to sign a petition to open a lawn bolws centre, you'd say no thanks, as you would a purpose built track.


Posting more stories about younger people killing innocent people wont do much for the thread, i have pleanty of other accounts of elderly, asian, middle aged, people doing the same stupid things and killing inoocent people.


Gorden you may think i am just some young guy who goes around tearing up the neighbourhood in a car that i can't handle, honest mistake, but i would think the same of someone my age (knowing most of my mates, only 1 or 2 i would trust being in a car with them.
Take a look at this pic, feel free to post your own to show that you can do 'better' than me, but i have not seen a similar pic of a burnout that was done in the pitch black of night! Also enclosed is a link to the Vid from when i drove to that burnout comp. By far not the best car there, but i didn't go to clean up the competition, if i did, i would have trailered a small car with a V8 wedged in it like 90% of the other competitiors!
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...r/Figure8s.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjUlteZUpxU

[Andrew Hornsey]

Stealthy,

I think you have missed a big point here. Why should people have facilities given to then for free. If a new track paid for by your local or state government means less money to spend on eduction or hospitals, is that right.

If it means a tax rise for all when only a very small minority would use it, is that right?

As I have said, if it makes commercial sense then someone will do it. If not, they wont. And if an entrepreneur won't look at it, then it will not make money, so it will cost the taxpayer in the end!

And I would ask you to reply to my comment on the dangers of burnouts. As I said, what happens if you loose your breaks or get sudden grip and you shoot into a bunch of people. And what happens when a large anount of rubber and metal from your tyre hits someone standing nearby when a tyre explodes.

I am not doubting your ability for one second - I am sure you will be fine. But accidents happen, and if you are in the wrong place at teh wrong time, someone will get hurt.

Andrew

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Gorden you may think i am just some young guy who goes around tearing up the neighbourhood in a car that i can't handle, honest mistake, but i would think the same of someone my age (knowing most of my mates, only 1 or 2 i would trust being in a car with them.

Stealthy, I'm afraid that, worryingly, you sound way too confident to me, but I guess that this goes with youth; maybe I felt this way when I was your age. Where I live in the UK, there are many roadside floral tributes to young people (and their victims) who felt that they had superior driving skills and paid the ultimate price. Also, using other examples of anti social behaviour and local government responses to justify your own position, is untenable. At the end of the day, on public roads, as at least one other poster has stated, a car is simply a means of getting from A to B and doing so within the law and within normal driving parameters, and not about gratifying your own driving desires. Neither does society owe you the right to provide a place for you to realise those desires. I hope that you get what you want, but you and those of like mind will need to campaign and lobby for it to happen. You rarely get something for nothing so, if you really feel strongly enough about it, work for it.

And, just for the record, Gordon is a good and well established saloon car driver with many years experience behind him. In motor racing, burn outs actually lose time, but since car control is all important, I wouldn't be betting against Gordon, any time soon! However, the fact that you seem to have offered the challenge only adds to my concern the here is a classic example of over confidence that goes with youth, which is, of course, where I came in.

[MosquitoByte]

LOL, there's only one good thing about burnouts in the streets, the idiots doing them keep those of us in the tyre industry in a work!

My thanks to all those morons...

However....

Note that word - MORONS.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hornsey

Stealthy,

I think you have missed a big point here. Why should people have facilities given to then for free. If a new track paid for by your local or state government means less money to spend on eduction or hospitals, is that right.

If it means a tax rise for all when only a very small minority would use it, is that right?

As I have said, if it makes commercial sense then someone will do it. If not, they wont. And if an entrepreneur won't look at it, then it will not make money, so it will cost the taxpayer in the end!

And I would ask you to reply to my comment on the dangers of burnouts. As I said, what happens if you loose your breaks or get sudden grip and you shoot into a bunch of people. And what happens when a large anount of rubber and metal from your tyre hits someone standing nearby when a tyre explodes.

I am not doubting your ability for one second - I am sure you will be fine. But accidents happen, and if you are in the wrong place at teh wrong time, someone will get hurt.

Andrew

I have never said it should be free. Most of the people who would use the facility (and have signed the petition to get AIR reopened) have said they are willing to put money in for the cause. Obviously there is some market for it, the problem with why our track isn't open is ownership issues.
The track deteriorated, and such was not sutable for top fuelrs. Sure this doesn't bring in millions of dollars, but it would generate some kind of income for businesses around the track.

There are many dangers of burnouts. As you listed, but they don't apply for me personally. I don't do burnouts with groups of people watching. Suggest such a thing happens and my car grips (kinda difficult being that i have a clutch pedal, the car wouldn't move a mm with the clutch in) then the worst would be a damaged gutter that i owe the council. I'm not perfect, but i know what my car can and cant do, yes there is always exceptions to this, but thats with anything.

I have heard of a story of a girl dying when a tyre split and the metal/rubber belts were sprayed onto her, and that was at a legal burnout comp (maybe some lack of safety for the spectators)
I also know of another story of a group of people watching illegal burnouts. The some Female driver who was drunk and unlicensed tried to do the same as the other cars, and hit a car pinning 2 girls. but taking in all the factors, being drunk, unlicensed (meaning she probably didn't know how to control a car) really puts the focus back onto drivers, not the art of burnouts (i call it an artform, its my opinion, deal with it)

Originally Posted by John Turner

Stealthy, I'm afraid that, worryingly, you sound way too confident to me, but I guess that this goes with youth; maybe I felt this way when I was your age. Where I live in the UK, there are many roadside floral tributes to young people (and their victims) who felt that they had superior driving skills and paid the ultimate price. Also, using other examples of anti social behaviour and local government responses to justify your own position, is untenable. At the end of the day, on public roads, as at least one other poster has stated, a car is simply a means of getting from A to B and doing so within the law and within normal driving parameters, and not about gratifying your own driving desires. Neither does society owe you the right to provide a place for you to realise those desires. I hope that you get what you want, but you and those of like mind will need to campaign and lobby for it to happen. You rarely get something for nothing so, if you really feel strongly enough about it, work for it.

And, just for the record, Gordon is a good and well established saloon car driver with many years experience behind him. In motor racing, burn outs actually lose time, but since car control is all important, I wouldn't be betting against Gordon, any time soon! However, the fact that you seem to have offered the challenge only adds to my concern the here is a classic example of over confidence that goes with youth, which is, of course, where I came in.

Straying from the street racing side of things here, but looking at people who like burnouts and racing at the drags, are a very very small group compared to the rest of the voters. No politician or local member would ever consider such a thing. Which is mostly because of the media (probably need a whole other thread for them). Around Australia there is a charity cruise happening, Victoria alone raised $18,000 for the starlight foundation, but that would NEVER get a mention. Thats just one state (didn't check the other states figures, and a few are still yet to run) So clearly the type of people who like to enjoy their cars aren't all out to speed, cut through traffic and cause a menace on the roads. If we are going to look at burnouts as such a problem on our streets when driving is ment to be from A - B, lets start with the drunk drivers and regular people speeding day in and day out on their way to work.

I know exactly who he is (after reading various posts in other forum sections), and i have not said i could 'outdrive' him, i said i could do a better burnout. I will wait for his pic to compare, and eat my words if it even comes close. I have never driven a circuit (besides games) so i would never pick a fight with someone who does it regularly.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

I know exactly who he is (after reading various posts in other forum sections), and i have not said i could 'outdrive' him, i said i could do a better burnout. I will wait for his pic to compare, and eat my words if it even comes close. I have never driven a circuit (besides games) so i would never pick a fight with someone who does it regularly.

And I knew exactly what you meant too; my point still stands, and why on earth would Gordon bother to respond; he has nothing to prove.