Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by Hendrix

Perhaps they can allow the DP as a show of how far technology has come in the last 20 years?

You mean like the DP would still be running after 15 minutes of racing?

[Articus]

Where are we at with regards to having GT3 coexist with GTE. I heard convergence talks failed? Wasn't the purpose for GT3 to allow amateurs to race. Doesn't GTE-AM prove that amateurs can run GTE machinery?

Im speaking with a bias towards GTE of course? Is there more too it? Cost?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Articus

Where are we at with regards to having GT3 coexist with GTE. I heard convergence talks failed? Wasn't the purpose for GT3 to allow amateurs to race. Doesn't GTE-AM prove that amateurs can run GTE machinery?

Im speaking with a bias towards GTE of course? Is there more too it? Cost?

Convergence talks failed, going ahead with the original idea of GT/GT+ with GTE is possible.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/d...ture-gte-regs/

[wewantourdarbyback]

One of the main problems with GT3/GTE is how hard it is to explain what they mean to someone who wants to learn. After you have gone through the difference I've been faced with the question of why it's called GT3, at which point I have to launch into the history of GT1/2.

[FstrthnU]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/o...-car-for-2015/
Onroak continuing to evaluate a Ligier LMP1-L

[Maelochs]

"Im speaking with a bias towards GTE of course? Is there more too it? Cost?"

AS i understand it, GT3 is basically a street car modified---take a white-metal whatever, ad whatever safety and racing parts, put it on the market and it's a GT-3.

GTE is a purpose-built chassis with different suspension pick-up points, in some cases transaxles instead of rear differentials, various other mechanical and aero changes plus a different engine built just for GTE--a whole different production line just for a few examples of a car which looks just like a GT3, only performs a little better, and which is welcome in a lot fewer series.

Factories which wanted to go both routes had to set up two entire production lines, and for one, assign a whole crew of engineers and designers to basically build a new car which only looked like the street model, while for the GT3 version, they only had to add on better bits.

The more they sell, the more spares they sell, and all that .... but with GTE (GTLM) only really welcome in four series (WEC, ELMS, TUSC, and GT-Open) the higher construction and purchase price made the profit margin miniscule, while the GT3 ... crank 'em out and sell 'em en masse.

Some factories, however, wanted GTE because it is Not purely a BoP series (by the slimmest of margins) so they might have some small advantage ... I guess. Who knows?

Corvette Racing in particular seemed to think they could be more competitive with a GTE with air restrictors as opposed to some kind of electronically limited (or whatever) GT3 motor, and pretty much refused to play if GTE engine regs weren't retained.

Possibly Corvette was worried that ion a GT3 chassis they'd be forced to run the 427, which would be ungainly in a road-racer. I don't know why they'd worry, seeing the V8 Z4 .... whatever.

[Speed-King]

GTE is a purpose-built chassis with different suspension pick-up points,

You can actually do a lot more with that in GT3... in GTE you are pretty tightly regulated, so you need to redesign the suspension from the ground up to fit (close) to the stock pick-up points but still allow for a racing-optimized geometry rather than one focused on road-driving.

but with GTE (GTLM) only really welcome in four series (WEC, ELMS, TUSC, and GT-Open)

You can basically scratch GT Open from that list...

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/file...try%20list.pdf

Not many GTE left there...

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

Hey Toyota bring that mid engined V8 hybrid Prius

If this is what it takes to get Toyota to fund a third car at Le Mans I wouldn't be complaining!

Originally Posted by skycafe

Hybrid GT300, ok, but the P1 cars are hybrid already, so are you showcasing anything new?

I know the hybrids are nothing new in the age of LMP1-H, but it could be spun as a "new hybrid GT" with an eye towards the next set of GT regulations (in the latest RCE Cotton says that Ratel has already pinpointed GT hybrids as the next big challenge for GT regulations). Not exactly innovative, but it could be very practical, and unlike certain other G56 entries, it would work.

[Koenigsegg]

ACO continuing with the GT/GT+ regs is a smart move in my opinion. Manufacturers can build a car for a ACO series, put some small modifications on it and sell it as a GT3 car. Would be surprised if the SRO doesn't approve that car, because then they would lose a manufacturer.

Basicly what SRT did. Build a GTE Viper, put small modifications on it and sell it as a GT3 Viper.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

ACO continuing with the GT/GT+ regs is a smart move in my opinion. Manufacturers can build a car for a ACO series, put some small modifications on it and sell it as a GT3 car. Would be surprised if the SRO doesn't approve that car, because then they would lose a manufacturer.

Basicly what SRT did. Build a GTE Viper, put small modifications on it and sell it as a GT3 Viper.

Ditto. IMHO I like the GT/GT+ idea a lot and think it would save people a lot of money. GT3 is tightly regulated and often gives decent racing but its artifical and gets waivered / boped within inches of its life. I'm for non-restrictor power regulation, particularly fuel flow meters like in LMP1 since it also helps the GT classes move towards an efficiency class.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I know the hybrids are nothing new in the age of LMP1-H, but it could be spun as a "new hybrid GT" with an eye towards the next set of GT regulations (in the latest RCE Cotton says that Ratel has already pinpointed GT hybrids as the next big challenge for GT regulations).

Ok, whoa! This place was heavily divided in the past about the BMW M3 being a GT car, and now you are talking about a Prius with the engine moved from front to middle, and a hybrid system that I guess is unlike the road version as being an example of the future of GT? That is more some full-on silhouette formula.

I am sure GT hybrid will be on the horizon, but at the moment how many are actually made and available for purchase? I don't think the ones that may be available are representative of the market place. Aren't the road GT hybrids coming on line likely to have performance potential well beyond the current GTE cars, unless they are BoP'ed beyond belief?

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Prius with the engine moved from front to middle, and a hybrid system that I guess is unlike the road version as being an example of the future of GT?

The Super GT GT300 Prius's hybrid system is the production hybrid system Also there are loads of cars with engines moved from the front to the middle; The GT300 Lexus 430 a few years ago, Volvo S60, etc. I don't think its so bad if that makes a competitive package!

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

The Super GT GT300 Prius's hybrid system is the production hybrid system Also there are loads of cars with engines moved from the front to the middle; The GT300 Lexus 430 a few years ago, Volvo S60, etc. I don't think its so bad if that makes a competitive package!

And those cars are not GT cars. There's enough teeth gnashing over the non-production engine in the ALMS Z4s. When you start moving engines around and putting on a shell, you move to silhouette cars, not GT cars.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

The Super GT GT300 Prius's hybrid system is the production hybrid system

Ah, thanks, that shows my ignorance of the situation with those cars.

[Maelochs]

While there have been some excellent silhouette-car series, I'd say leave the pure purpose-built race cars in the prototype class and have actual GT cars in GT. Really, what's the point otherwise?

[skycafe]

I agree.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

While there have been some excellent silhouette-car series, I'd say leave the pure purpose-built race cars in the prototype class and have actual GT cars in GT. Really, what's the point otherwise?

Yep.







L.P.

[TF110]

Because theyre race cars. If youre building a race car with only certain elements from the street car, whats the big difference? If they use the street car's chassis but allow modifications to the body suspension and engine its not too far off some of the older jgtc cars. I dont think bespoke chassis's and radical aero is an answer, but let them make race cars out of their street cars. The term 'GT' is hardly what a Vette or 458 Italia are. They're sportscars or supercars. A GT is that big Bentley. Thats my take on it.

[TF110]

Another rumor on the lmp1 front is Mazda. I guess it depends on if theyre allowed the diesel in lmp2...? http://twitter.com/dsceditor/status/479338647079383043

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by TF110

The term 'GT' is hardly what a Vette or 458 Italia are. They're sportscars or supercars. A GT is that big Bentley. Thats my take on it.

Actually, the 458 GTE and GT3's are closer to their road going counter parts than any other car in the class.

-mike

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Actually, the 458 GTE and GT3's are closer to their road going counter parts than any other car in the class.

-mike

Im talking about street terminology. GT or Grand Tourer, those are a bit different from exotic supercars like the 458.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Another rumor on the lmp1 front is Mazda. I guess it depends on if theyre allowed the diesel in lmp2...? http://twitter.com/dsceditor/status/479338647079383043

Oh, nice, long time since the last manufacturer rumor spin.

[TF110]

This one already runs an lmp. The decision is probably based on being allowed to run their diesel in lmp2 or not. I dont see them going lmp1. I think theyll milk out the tusc series.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by TF110

Another rumor on the lmp1 front is Mazda. I guess it depends on if theyre allowed the diesel in lmp2...? http://twitter.com/dsceditor/status/479338647079383043

Why do Mazda have to go on diesel when they could use hydrogen instead? Audi takes care of the diesel department currently.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Why do Mazda have to go on diesel when they could use hydrogen instead? Audi takes care of the diesel department currently.

They'd go even slower and explode more often.