V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Because it's all about money and power/control. And I don't blame anyone for that because you always want to protect what business and interests you have.

Just like what CAMS went through in Australia when V8SC came on the scene and got organized, MNZ wants to remain in control of the revenue streams and direction of the top tier of the sport, whether or not they do a good job of it(debatable).

I've always believed that the FIA, which is supposed to be a non profit, as well as it's national bodies, needs to focus on licensing, safety, marshalling and other administrative functions, of which it can or does get paid for, but it's best to leave actual categories of motorsport as private enterprise. I think when a national body of the FIA gets entangled in series management and other similar things it's a conflict of interest and it ends up taking sides, when in reality to do the job it needs to do, it needs to stay out of all that.

As I expected, this "split" has polarized people and the long term ramifications are unclear. Personally I have no issue with either series and will follow both.

Nicely put, MS, and I agree 100%

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Because it's all about money and power/control. And I don't blame anyone for that because you always want to protect what business and interests you have.

Just like what CAMS went through in Australia when V8SC came on the scene and got organized, MNZ wants to remain in control of the revenue streams and direction of the top tier of the sport, whether or not they do a good job of it(debatable).

I've always believed that the FIA, which is supposed to be a non profit, as well as it's national bodies, needs to focus on licensing, safety, marshalling and other administrative functions, of which it can or does get paid for, but it's best to leave actual categories of motorsport as private enterprise. I think when a national body of the FIA gets entangled in series management and other similar things it's a conflict of interest and it ends up taking sides, when in reality to do the job it needs to do, it needs to stay out of all that.

As I expected, this "split" has polarized people and the long term ramifications are unclear. Personally I have no issue with either series and will follow both.

I also agree 100%!! Very well put. Quite a few parallels between the FIA and MNZ. The fact that MNZ and TMC are linked spiritually, if not financially is a definite conflict of interest.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

There is such a thing as too much downforce,

maybe not for laptimes,
but for good racing.

How good will the class be if the cars are so fast and good that they can stop on a dime and so there is no chance for outbraking,
and have so much downforce that you cant follow the car in front to close in or out of a corner as the turbulent air from the car in front upstes your down force.

No one wants to see a high speed xmas parade.

That depends on the circuit too - not much chance of overtaking on a narrow circuit with lots of high speed bends, but somewhere like Hampton Downs with plenty of wide, low speed corners makes for plenty of passing opportunities.

[E36ST]

Motorsport NZ and TMZ certainly are linked financially. MSNZ is the majority shareholder in TMC so there is an obvious conflict of interest between their administrative role and their role of developing and promotiing motorsport in NZ.

http://www.business.govt.nz/companie.../shareholdings

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by E36ST

Motorsport NZ and TMZ certainly are linked financially. MSNZ is the majority shareholder in TMC so there is an obvious conflict of interest between their administrative role and their role of developing and promotiing motorsport in NZ.

http://www.business.govt.nz/companie.../shareholdings

And I think we all know how a couple of TMC folk have been looking after their own interests for years. Have a good look back at the Zoagn sponsorship - they came on-board as a class sponsor and then became one particular drivers personal sponsor when he moved to another class. Check out the history of the Safety car and who owns it - that's pretty interesting too. These have been pit-lane topics of conversation for ages and everyone agrees they look rotten. And these examples are just the tip of the iceberg!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I also agree 100%!! Very well put. Quite a few parallels between the FIA and MNZ. The fact that MNZ and TMC are linked spiritually, if not financially is a definite conflict of interest.

I think they know that 100%, but they are not going to go quietly or just surrender a business. NZ is not like the USA or Europe where a wide plethora of well supported motor sport can exist and opportunities are limited in NZ, in fact for 4 million people it's pretty impressive what they have as it is. So MNZ is going to fight to control what they already have.

The club/track I belong to has taken the view of neutrality, but especially with some of the PR releases MNZ has passed out, including the one sent the other day, I think it will be unfortunate if it drags license holders and tracks into taking sides.

Personally I think Motorsport New Zealand needs to get out of TMC and let their interest get sold so they can get back to doing what they need to do. Let the market decide. If the market decides that they want the NZV8 Summer Series and a wholly separate NZST series and their categories, cool. If the market decides that they don't want NZV8's and the remaining categories get absorbed in NZST, cool. If NZST flops and the NZV8 summer series is what people want, cool.

Let the free market and private enterprise decide. Let the public decide what they want to see and watch and support.

This should not be decided via courtrooms, people whizzing on one another with press releases and emails, or any back room manipulation or other saber rattling ego boosting tricks.

In regards to the FIA:

So far Jean Todt has seemed to have done a much better job at the FIA, aligning it with doing what the FIA should be doing which is supporting all motorsport and assisting them in the best way possible, rather than pitting people against one another and trying to rule the world as the tyrant mad max mosely did. max mosely actually started off as a good FIA president and had the right idea and then decided to do the Tony Montana Scarface "The World is Mine" routine and got drunk on power. He wasn't serving the interests of motorsport worldwide at all. At the end he was no better than the previous tyrant balestre he replaced with much fanfare in 1992.

[MarioNZ]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Because it's all about money and power/control. And I don't blame anyone for that because you always want to protect what business and interests you have.

Just like what CAMS went through in Australia when V8SC came on the scene and got organized, MNZ wants to remain in control of the revenue streams and direction of the top tier of the sport, whether or not they do a good job of it(debatable).

I've always believed that the FIA, which is supposed to be a non profit, as well as it's national bodies, needs to focus on licensing, safety, marshalling and other administrative functions, of which it can or does get paid for, but it's best to leave actual categories of motorsport as private enterprise. I think when a national body of the FIA gets entangled in series management and other similar things it's a conflict of interest and it ends up taking sides, when in reality to do the job it needs to do, it needs to stay out of all that.

As I expected, this "split" has polarized people and the long term ramifications are unclear. Personally I have no issue with either series and will follow both.

Thanks MS, this and your last post have answered so elloquently what I was trying to get my head around. This along with many of your other musings may just qualify you as the most sensible poster on 10/10ths !

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

In regards to the FIA:

So far Jean Todt has seemed to have done a much better job at the FIA, aligning it with doing what the FIA should be doing which is supporting all motorsport and assisting them in the best way possible, rather than pitting people against one another and trying to rule the world as the tyrant mad max mosely did.

wasn't Todt a rallying man, though ?

[FIRE]

Co-driver

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think they know that 100%, but they are not going to go quietly or just surrender a business. NZ is not like the USA or Europe where a wide plethora of well supported motor sport can exist and opportunities are limited in NZ, in fact for 4 million people it's pretty impressive what they have as it is. So MNZ is going to fight to control what they already have.

The club/track I belong to has taken the view of neutrality, but especially with some of the PR releases MNZ has passed out, including the one sent the other day, I think it will be unfortunate if it drags license holders and tracks into taking sides.

Personally I think Motorsport New Zealand needs to get out of TMC and let their interest get sold so they can get back to doing what they need to do. Let the market decide. If the market decides that they want the NZV8 Summer Series and a wholly separate NZST series and their categories, cool. If the market decides that they don't want NZV8's and the remaining categories get absorbed in NZST, cool. If NZST flops and the NZV8 summer series is what people want, cool.

Let the free market and private enterprise decide. Let the public decide what they want to see and watch and support.

This should not be decided via courtrooms, people whizzing on one another with press releases and emails, or any back room manipulation or other saber rattling ego boosting tricks.

In regards to the FIA:

So far Jean Todt has seemed to have done a much better job at the FIA, aligning it with doing what the FIA should be doing which is supporting all motorsport and assisting them in the best way possible, rather than pitting people against one another and trying to rule the world as the tyrant mad max mosely did. max mosely actually started off as a good FIA president and had the right idea and then decided to do the Tony Montana Scarface "The World is Mine" routine and got drunk on power. He wasn't serving the interests of motorsport worldwide at all. At the end he was no better than the previous tyrant balestre he replaced with much fanfare in 1992.

Another excellent observation. I had thought that MNZ was no longer financially involved with TMC but apparently they are. This is so wrong! If TMC could stand on its own two feet without the support of MNZ then great, but it's interesting that they don't.

[Mr Revhead]

So how come no super tourers for other tracks? Hardly seems right restricting it to 2 circuits.

[MacrosNZ]

You mean four circuits right?

Hampton
Ruapuna
Manfield
Taupo

[Mr Revhead]

Oh sorry I'd only heard of HD and Taupo. Was unaware they were going to Mnafield and Ruapuna. Why not Levels or Teretonga though?

[Biggy G]

The artwork for Kayne (Or "Kane", as they had it spelt originally :P) Scott's car revealed yesterday during the Bathurst coverage over here on TV 3:

[MacrosNZ]

New Zealands new V8 Supertourer championship will run on tyres developed for the German-based DTM series.


V8SuperTourers Ltd. today announced it has appointed Hankook Tyres as the exclusive supplier to the series for three years commencing in 2012.


All entrants will run on Ventus F200 slick and Ventus Z207 wet tyres that have the same construction and compounds as the tyre exclusively supplied by Hankook to the DTM.


The tyres will be supplied to V8 Supertourers through Hankook Competitions New Zealand distributor Value Tyres.


The Managing Director of V8SuperTourers Ltd, Mark Petch, says that the Hankook tyres were selected after a three day testing program.


As a benchmark, we tested a leading European racing tyre used in a top level international series, and found the Hankooks performed as well or better, said Mr. Petch.


Hankooks compounds and construction are world leading. Where other tyres we tested had limited durability and were more prone to blistering, the Hankook tyres hung in with no signs of blistering on the heavily loaded left hand rear tyres shoulder. They certainly exceeded our expectations.


V8SuperTourers are built using similar chassis design principles to the upcoming 2013 V8 Supercars Car Of The Future (COTF) technical specifications, with an 18x10.5in wheel and 280/680R18 sized tyre.


Designed from the outset as a category to keep competitor costs down, V8SuperTourers are built on a common racing chassis.


A 7.0L dry-sumped alloy V8 engine, identical, to the engine used in the American built Mosler GT3 cars, will power all V8ST cars.


Representing the latest models from Holden and Ford, there will be also scope for additional manufacturers to join the series in the future.


Sixteen vehicles will line-up on the grid at the first meeting at Hampton Downs Motorsport Park on February 17-19.


Paul Ceprnich, V8SuperTourer designer and engineer, says that the tyres performed very well in testing at Hampton Downs, which is particularly hard on tyres.


Hampton Downs is very hard on the left hand rear tyre and, with the torque of the 7.0L V8, the rear tyres are pushed quite hard, Mr. Ceprnich said.


The Hankook tyres performed very well, but it was their consistency and durability that really impressed. We tested the medium compound, and we were able to test on one set of tyres all day.


Our testing was in probably the toughest conditions the cars will face, and the Hankook tyres passed the tests with flying colors, showing excellent consistency even after 60 laps.


The series has drawn many top-flight drivers, including V8 Supercars star and 2011 Bathurst 1000 pole sitter, Greg Murphy alongside Kiwi racers and 2011 Bathurst 1000 drivers, Craig Baird, Daniel Gaunt and John McIntyre.


A series of endurance races later in the season are expected to draw V8 Supercar drivers including Jamie Whincup, Craig Lowndes, Shane Van Gisbergen, Russell Ingall and Fabian Coulthard, as well as international drivers such as New Zealands own Scott Dixon.


Hankook Research and Development Engineer Roy Cha was involved in the V8SuperTourers testing process, and says that he was not surprised by the performance of the Hankook tyres.


We have spent thousands of hours researching, developing and testing our tyre constructions and compounds across many racing series worldwide, said Mr Cha.


The V8SuperTourer chassis is highly developed and an excellent race car. In testing, we saw similar results to what we see in DTM racing. Being able to transfer that expertise was a great advantage for Hankook.


Jose Angeles, Marketing Manager, Hankook Tyre Australia, says that Hankook is excited to be extending its motorsport portfolio.


We have made a significant investment in our production facilities in order to meet the new demand, with new moulds and an extension to our motorsport production line.


Hankook is anticipating that V8SuperTourers will be an action-packed, exciting racing series and look forward to a long involvement.

it's official

[Axeman444]

Simonsen to run then?

[promax]

doesn't Honda Cup use the same tyre?

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by promax

doesn't Honda Cup use the same tyre?

I think they can use different brands

18 WHEELS AND TYRES
18.1 The maximum wheel size shall be 17x8.
Any approved vehicle running a wider rim in OEM specification can apply to the Technical Officer for dispensation, which if given will be in writing .
18.3 tyres may be racing slick, dot rated or street legal. wet slick is considered as a racing slick
18.4 only tyres clearly marked DOT –road legal by the original manufacturer shall be deemed to be so.
18.5 In accordance with Schedule a, DOT approved road tyres must have, at all times, a minimum tread groove depth of 1.5 mm across at least three quarters of the width and around the entire circumference of the tyres road contact surface.
Grooving tyres to increase tread depth is not permitted

[GTRMagic]

The series boss looks a littler happier in his new photo...



With the new technical and series support deal from the tyre supplier, and new car livery designs being trotted out... its beginning to look a lot like a race series

[MacrosNZ]

We can now confirm our 2012 Calendar for the inaugural “V8 Series of Champions. See our Info for 2 dates changes (Round 2 at Ruapuna is Easter weekend April 7-8-9 and Round 4 at Hampton Downs is now June 1-2-3 - Queens Birthday Weekend). All other dates remain unchanged.

No more conflicts with V8SC now.

[EZY PEEL]

I just saw a commy shell on the back of an ORIX trailer on the m-way. Looks like M3 racing have at lease one of their fleet.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by EZY PEEL

I just saw a commy shell on the back of an ORIX trailer on the m-way. Looks like M3 racing have at lease one of their fleet.

I don't know who M3 are, but I'd guess that was one of the cars Paul Manuell is building. One for himself plus two others.

[EZY PEEL]

They are calling themselves M3 racing, Manuell, Murphy, Moore. I think it was originally M4 with ?MacGlaughlin? or someone else beginning with M but that competitor went solo.

3 identical builds going on at the same time.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by EZY PEEL

They are calling themselves M3 racing, Manuell, Murphy, Moore. I think it was originally M4 with ?MacGlaughlin? or someone else beginning with M but that competitor went solo.

3 identical builds going on at the same time.

Well I learn something every day, thanks. I think Paul has a lot of work on his hands but he's a very capable fellow. Good luck to him. I'm looking forward to this series kicking off, it will be great.

[GTRMagic]

In Mr McIntyre's paintshop...