[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[GT6]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

BTW flexible wings are prohibited by the deflection test in the regulations.

Yes but has the ACO banned, lasers to cut the rival cars in half, or oil squirted out of the back, or any of the other bond car goodies

Perhaps a toyota person might even be sent to help fill up the fuel tanks of their rivals, like in porridge Apologies to non british people who have never seen that particular comedy show

[GasperG]

4.78 MJ is 1.328 kWh
353 kW braking power minus ERS efficiency we have something like 280 kW usable regen.

1.328 kWh / 280 kW * 3600 = 17 s

Was there 17 s of braking time per lap at SPA?

There is also a lot that you can do with software, for instance if they weren't using full fuel potential per lap then you could regen every time you are not on the full throttle (twisty bit of the track). How? Lets say that you need only 100 kW to keep the right speed through the twisty bit of the track, with throttle by wire the engine could be running at 324 kW and electric regen with 224 kW (rear only) and you end up with the same 100 kW on the wheels.

The question is if they have enough fuel to play with that, but then again the deficit is probably less than 2 MJ and that would mean only around 3% of total fuel allocation per lap.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Toyota and Porsche could use 4.78 MJ of hybrid energy in Spa. That is already at 80% of what is possible in Le Mans.

BTW flexible wings are prohibited by the deflection test in the regulations.

Read motorsport total, it has the words from Vasselon saying they were limited at both Silverstone and Spa by the braking events. This wont be the case at Le Mans with its major braking zones.

As for flexi wings? A deflection test can be passed, red bull has shown this. Lets not forget the wing pieces on the LM spec 2012 TS030 that deformed at speed. There are clever ways to skirt the rules which Toyota has shown since their return, and other teams doing the same.

Onto the recuperation, the brake-by-wire system supposedly aids in regenerating. Also, a few onboards at Spa showed them lifting into the bus stop chicane well before the brake zone. Coasting may save fuel and regenerate if its in deceleration...
http://youtu.be/viYOJm_hCuU

[cokata]

Originally Posted by GasperG

4.78 MJ is 1.328 kWh
353 kW braking power minus ERS efficiency we have something like 280 kW usable regen.

1.328 kWh / 280 kW * 3600 = 17 s

Was there 17 s of braking time per lap at SPA?

There is also a lot that you can do with software, for instance if they weren't using full fuel potential per lap then you could regen every time you are not on the full throttle (twisty bit of the track). How? Lets say that you need only 100 kW to keep the right speed through the twisty bit of the track, with throttle by wire the engine could be running at 324 kW and electric regen with 224 kW (rear only) and you end up with the same 100 kW on the wheels.

The question is if they have enough fuel to play with that, but then again the deficit is probably less than 2 MJ and that would mean only around 3% of total fuel allocation per lap.

If the little "f1 style" kers graphics are to be believed , than the toyota was only using 80-85% percent of the allowed energy unlike the audis that were using their last ~5% on the exit of the bus stop.Also interestingly the number 3 audi looked to be geared for le mans it was just going to 7h past 290 kph,and that could explain some of it's deficit in terms of raw pace

[TF110]

Toyota currently at Spa testing (3 days 20th-22nd), sharing their time with the Strakka Dome. Hopefully we learn more, but both TS040 cars were testing.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota currently at Spa testing (3 days 20th-22nd), sharing their time with the Strakka Dome. Hopefully we learn more, but both TS040 cars were testing.

Few pics of the tests:


(source: endurance-info.com)

[TF110]

Nakajima in the #7 and Buemi in the #8 (you can see their helmets in those pics). I wonder if theyre testing their "secret weapon". I cant see any differences in the package.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

I cant see any differences in the package.

The package indeed looks similar to the launch-spec:


Could be that there are some changes at the back.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

The package indeed looks similar to the launch-spec:


Could be that there are some changes at the back.

Yeah it looks the same.. The package performed so well at Spa, I can't see why they would want to change it much.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

I wonder if theyre testing their "secret weapon". I cant see any differences in the package.

I wonder if they will try a few things with the exhaust layout.

[TF110]

Great Video here showing a lot of tmg from the inside, mostly speaks of things we know... http://youtu.be/u-K5Y4mVIOQ

[Gingers4Justice]

Most noticeable difference is that there's actually a number on the front of the car! Thought that it was a bit naughty from Toyota before.

[CyberMotor]

I can't get over how much the new Toyota is looking like the old Peugeot. Maybe, seeing 'Total' as a sponsor and seeing the shape of the Toyota is enough to bring back old memories of the Peugeot that dyed a premature death.

Maybe, we are seeing the spirit of Peugeot melded with Toyota to live again?

If so, it's a powerful alliance.

[GT6]

The paint scheme and sponsors do now remind us of the peugeot but i think that is all the cars are actually very different IMHO

[TF110]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

I can't get over how much the new Toyota is looking like the old Peugeot. Maybe, seeing 'Total' as a sponsor and seeing the shape of the Toyota is enough to bring back old memories of the Peugeot that dyed a premature death.

Maybe, we are seeing the spirit of Peugeot melded with Toyota to live again?

If so, it's a powerful alliance.

Not sure on the technical side, but they did take some of their drivers... Wurz, Sarrazin (Lapierre was with Oreca who- helps out a good bit). Heres the current management situation- http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/team/management/ everyone in the management team has been with Toyota for 10 years + except Vasselon. You can see Hisatake Murata was the original manager of hybrid racing for Toyota and was in charge of the Toyota Supra HV R that used the super capacitor and won Tokachi 24hrs. Both he and Yoshiaki Kinoshita were a part of Toyota's (TRD's) champ car program. So theres a good history with these guys working together, lots of history from previous Le Mans efforts also!

[CyberMotor]

Probably a major influence is also having Hugues de Chaunac associated with the program. Did he bring the Total sponsorship with him?

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not sure on the technical side, but they did take some of their drivers... Wurz, Sarrazin (Lapierre was with Oreca who- helps out a good bit). Heres the current management situation- http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/team/management/ everyone in the management team has been with Toyota for 10 years + except Vasselon. You can see Hisatake Murata was the original manager of hybrid racing for Toyota and was in charge of the Toyota Supra HV R that used the super capacitor and won Tokachi 24hrs. Both he and Yoshiaki Kinoshita were a part of Toyota's (TRD's) champ car program. So theres a good history with these guys working together, lots of history from previous Le Mans efforts also!

Not to mention Hugh de Chaunac being a familiar face for Peugeot too.

[TF110]

Toyota started up interest back into lmp's in 2008 or 2009 iirc. Oreca was in partnership with Peugeot, who chose his team to run their cars in 2009. I dont think he had anything to do with their car or Toyota's. He just ran it like Joest does with Audi. Maybe he brought total sponsorship with him? But mostly its experience.

[chernaudi]

What Oreca is doing with Toyota is no different than what Champion and Joest have done with Audi, and what Joest is still doing with Audi.

In the case with Audi, Joest and Champion are registered team owners, provide personnel, Audi provide the cars and engineering staff behind the scenes.

Hughes is doing much the same with Oreca--provding staff and personnel, Toyota Motorsport GmbH handles the car, tech, and serious engineering.

[carbon_titanium]

about total, I just think that after peugeot withdraw the oil company just decided to support toyota to keep the same visibility (even if this time "total" is not in the name of the team).

[TF110]

I thought they would use Esso (exxon mobil), considering their past history of using them in Le Mans...

[Gingers4Justice]

I wonder what Toyota's response to today's announcement from Nissan will be.

The program doesn't really seem to have much of a "Toyota" element to it at all, as it's really a TMG effort. The marketing effort is minimal for a manufacturer and they seem to treat it more like a Motorsport research project than a marketing exercise.

Hard not to imagine them bragging about beating Nissan though. I think they might up the ante with the promotional side of things now.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I wonder what Toyota's response to today's announcement from Nissan will be.

I think their response will be as follows: 1) Win Le Mans 2014 2) Win Le Mans 2015 3) Welcome Nissan back

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

about total, I just think that after peugeot withdraw the oil company just decided to support toyota to keep the same visibility (even if this time "total" is not in the name of the team).

Someone senior from Total was in attendance at the Nissan LMP1 conference, so I imagine Toyota will be losing Total as a sponsor after this year?

[chernaudi]

Nissan G56 renders do show Total sponsorship on the car.

Maybe ExxonMobil will be back on Toyota's entries in the WEC/LM24 next year?