Chequebook Racers, your thoughts?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ADEE

I totally agree that not all successful people are arrogant - far from it. What I say is that IF you have the £££ AND are also arrogant, then this is a dangerous cocktail on the race track. Especially if ability is limited. And by their nature arrogant people seldom strive to listen to advice on how to improve. Put them in a powerful race car and sooner or later they will be involved in a situation they are not sufficiently skillful to handle. That's the point.

Heck Yah. I see that when I go to Viper track days all the time. More Vipers into walls and being haulded off on roll backs then any other events.

Second worst students ( as a group ) I have worked with where Viper owners. MB owners were the worst, but less accidents.


There will always be a few ppl like that. If they learn great, if not, ignor them, they dont seem to stay around very long anyway. If they are dangorious drivers take to the stewarts and get it resulved.

I do agree it is a little funny when some self proclaimed hot shot gets blowne away from experircend drivers.

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Second worst students ( as a group ) I have worked with where Viper owners. MB owners were the worst, but less accidents.


I do agree it is a little funny when some self proclaimed hot shot gets blowne away from experircend drivers.

Hey, That is unfair on some students and Mercedes drivers! I am both and I am a very good racing driver.
Yes I trundle around at the back of the field of Ford Fiestas but this is due to being so heavy compared to the other drivers. When I do race my Sunbeam I am a very compitent and capable driver. Young doesn't always mean incompetent! I drive 10s of 1000s of miles every year!

I am a very good driver and its only money that is holding me back entering the Nurburg 24 hrs!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Hey, That is unfair on some students and Mercedes drivers! I am both and I am a very good racing driver.
Yes I trundle around at the back of the field of Ford Fiestas but this is due to being so heavy compared to the other drivers. When I do race my Sunbeam I am a very compitent and capable driver. Young doesn't always mean incompetent! I drive 10s of 1000s of miles every year!

I am a very good driver and its only money that is holding me back entering the Nurburg 24 hrs!

Sorry maybe I should not have said that ( or looked closer at your avitor) I instructor for both groups, plus other car clubs. The MB clubs students are the most difficult to instruct of all the different car clubs I instruct with.
They are not as fast, which is good for safty reasons, but have a difficult time listing to and taking advice.

When there is an instructor in the passanger seat at 100+ mph, sorry guys the instructor is the boss. You do what he says, when he says it, with out question at that time. Or you may both wind up in the hospital. After that session in the paddock the instuctor will spend as much time as he can answering any questions.

I instructor PCA, Audi, Mazda, Viper, Corvette, MB and several indpenendent sports car clubs.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by rcarr

I am a very good driver and its only money that is holding me back entering the Nurburg 24 hrs!

Yes I believe you. Lots of ppl can relate to that too.

I have had two offers to test with a lower level Grand Am teams, but I dont have $20-30,000 a race to contribuite < koff > to the team.
But sure would love to drive a DP even just for a few laps.

[rcarr]

God there are several cynical *******s on this forum!

I could quit uni and use my tuition fees to buy myself a drive at the Nurburg 24hrs. The Nurburg 24 hrs is alot cheaper than Grand-Am! You can get a production car drive for around £3k mark!

My Dad has had people come up to him and slag him off for being at the back of the grid when he started racing in a bog standard MGB, but the fact of the matter the guys who slagged him off were guys who were proud off beating Grannies off the line at traffic lights! The main thing is being out there, I will never get spotted and become a pro racing driver, I am happy to buy drives at races but I started racing in a 1.6 Fiesta and I will be humbled by it all if I can afford to race at Le Mans, Spa 24hrs and of course the Nurburg 24hrs!

My friend who works for phoenix racing says EUR 100k+ to buy a top drive at the Spa 24hrs. Ill start at the bottom and work up to a Porsche privateer Le Mans drive.

[AU N EGL]

Well rcarr, I wish you the best in your racing carear, but dont quit uni what ever you do.

Good Luck

[TheKing]

RCARR,

Money is always the argument put forward by the "could-have-beens." If you have the ability, and determination and all the other things that go together to succeed in motorsport, then youll find a way to do it.

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by rcarr

The main thing is being out there,

Quite right. Once again, why shouldn't someone buy the best they can afford? It seems that you and your Dad have. Maybe the chap with the Porsche or GT2 car has done the same? Your problem seems to be with him saying that he has driven more powerful cars on the road - have you thought it possible that he does? And that him stating that isn't him being a "big-shot" but replying to a question about how he can handle the power? No claims of "I'm going to blow away the field", just that he's used to those kind of power figures.

There's a chap on these forums who owns, and occasionally races, a host of RS500s and a Merc DTM car. I've never met him, but I'm in awe of someone who is that committed to racing that they'd buy that fleet. My point is that it doesn't matter if he comes first or last, he's doing it the same as the rest of us are - it's just that he has the resources to do it in a 400bhp DTM car, which most of us don't. We should all respect each other for just being there and doing it, rather than sniping at those with more money - talent doesn't come into it.

As for big fishes in little ponds, have you thought that the Porsche driver doesn't have the time to commit to a national series, or can't justify the cost (the car might cost a lot to buy, but it'll hold its value pretty well)? There's other drivers around the country in the same position, doing only regional series in expensive cars.

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by rcarr

God there are several cynical bas****s on this forum!

Dodging the autocensor is a no no. Please don't do it again!

Thanks,

Stephen.

[greenamex2]

I don't know what MB drivers are like on the track but they are the single worst group on the road for taking no notice of motorcycles.

[rcarr]

Sorry Stephen! It won't happen again! I am normally I mild mannered person, but when some people get me riled, a torrent of abuse comes out of my mouth or keyboard.

Denis, thats interesting, because Nissan Primera drivers don't notice my brake lights on my A-Class and drive into the back off it making me lose my 7 years no claims bonus!

Theking, I am a never-has-been my budget is my problem, for a start, I wouldn't buy a Porsche if I had the money, I would buy a purpose built racing car, Juno, PRC, Ligier and show them that money isn't everything, you do need some talent. I am fearless when it comes to racing, always the last on the brakes for a corner, I love repassing quicker cars coming into the hairpin at Knockhill!

Tim Wilkinson, both Porsche drivers can easily afford to run in national series but want to beat us rather than getting beaten themselves! A couple of years ago, we were the only team not run or backed by a garage in our race, now the caterhams are back in our race there are a few that run them from home.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

My point is that it doesn't matter if he comes first or last, he's doing it the same as the rest of us are -

Here Here






But 400 RWHP is ohhhhhh soooooo nice

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

I don't know what MB drivers are like on the track but they are the single worst group on the road for taking no notice of motorcycles.

It's a little know fact outside MB owner circles, but each and every car is sold with a customer package that includes the immediated vicinity of the vehicle and the road beneath it (for road, read road/pavement/traffic island/no parking zone/and other vehicles, if small enough). So whenever you see an MB driver doing something you think is unreasonable, just remember... it's his own personal bit of road and he is perfectly entitled, by virtue of being an MB owner of course, to do whatever the hell he likes with it!

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by dtype38

It's a little know fact outside MB owner circles, but each and every car is sold with a customer package that includes the immediated vicinity of the vehicle and the road beneath it (for road, read road/pavement/traffic island/no parking zone/and other vehicles, if small enough). So whenever you see an MB driver doing something you think is unreasonable, just remember... it's his own personal bit of road and he is perfectly entitled, by virtue of being an MB owner of course, to do whatever the hell he likes with it!

Interestingly, I thought that was BMW and Jaguar owners.

Some Mercedes drivers give the rest of us a bad name.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

I don't know what MB drivers are like on the track but they are the single worst group on the road for taking no notice of motorcycles.

Have you been arguing with onw again?

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Interestingly, I thought that was BMW and Jaguar owners.

Some Mercedes drivers give the rest of us a bad name.

Newer Jag drivers are generally really good. Drivers of older Jags are almost as bad as MB drivers.

Funnily enough the same is true of Volvo drivers.

BMW are a mixture, can't really 'pidgeon hole' them.

The very best drivers are 'real' sportcars such as 911's (not Boxsters and Caymen's) and Ferrari's, but I think that is because they don't want their bodywork damaged.

Also really good are those 'pikey' twin cab monster pickup trucks. I suspect this is because they had motorbikes when they were younger.

But don't even get me started on women applying their lippy whilst changing lanes and talking on the phone.

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

Newer Jag drivers are generally really good. Drivers of older Jags are almost as bad as MB drivers.

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by dtype38

I never see really really old Jags so you are OK.

My view of the hard shoulder is usually blocked by lorries!

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Tim Wilkinson, both Porsche drivers can easily afford to run in national series but want to beat us rather than getting beaten themselves!

What's wrong with wanting to win?

From your posts in this thread, it seems to be your opinion that it's not right that these guys are winning races, yet it's also not right if they aren't winning (seeing as they have the best cars). Exactly where would you like them to finish? Or would you rather they went and raced somewhere else? You can't get rid of people just because they have the money and tools to do a better job than you're doing - as others have said, see it as a challenge to better them on lesser resources, rather than complaining because it's not a level playing-field.

[Al Weyman]

That was my point Tim. they are on a hiding for nothing! My ideal scenario would be to become a secret lottery winner, pay someone a few grand to get my car right on the pace and then go and hopefully win some races but as soon as anyone found out you were minted you would get no glory for it just sniping.

[simes43]

In my experience, if you throw a bucket of water over you car or heaven forbid actually polish it, you can become a cheque book racer!

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by simes43

In my experience, if you throw a bucket of water over you car or heaven forbid actually polish it, you can become a cheque book racer!

When we ran our Tiga SC79, it was the best looking car in the paddock. We had a very efficient little girl, (daughter of 1 of our team) she would blow up the tyres and keep the car sparkling.

The reason the car was so successful was because time and effort were put into the preparation of the car. Our chief mechanic was going through a rough time at home and he spent all the time on the cylinder head to get away from it all over the off-season. The car went from the back of the grid in August-October in 92 when we 1st bought the car to challenging for wins in 93.' We were the best team in the paddock!

We were rich in dedication but not money.

Unfortuantely, the said mechanic has a new wife and is doing DIY for the house rather than working on the car, this has been the problem for the passed 8 years or so and Zoe(the wee girl) has grown up and isn't interested in coming racing with us! Its frustrating for me because I started racing 6 years ago and the effort of the team hasn't been there!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

But don't even get me started on women applying their lippy whilst changing lanes and talking on the phone.

Damn. On your side of the pond too ????

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

What's wrong with wanting to win?

From your posts in this thread, it seems to be your opinion that it's not right that these guys are winning races, yet it's also not right if they aren't winning (seeing as they have the best cars). Exactly where would you like them to finish? Or would you rather they went and raced somewhere else? You can't get rid of people just because they have the money and tools to do a better job than you're doing - as others have said, see it as a challenge to better them on lesser resources, rather than complaining because it's not a level playing-field.

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there Tim. Those of us who do it through hard work on a shoestring simply resent some talentless moneybags buying their way up to the same position on the grid. From personal experience I know of people who have gone into a race car prep shop and said "Here's my chequebook, I want a the fastest car on the track". They don't, of course, choose to race in series where the size of their chequebook only gets them to first base. That would be pretty stupid, although not unknown. So back to the problem... how do you arrange a race series so that people can't buy their way to the front? .... and if you have the answer, club race series organisers the world over will happily beat a path to your door. Fact is it aint gonna happen... so FWIW if this type of racer really gets your goat, then the best approach is simply to make them feel unwelcome in you chosen race series and see who is in the majority, because sure as eggs the feeling will probably be mutual.

[Al Weyman]

I tried to dtype and we had the infamous buying plate but then that got railroaded out and the ex-Khan BTCC car and the ex-Brocky Commodore etc started filtering in and that was the end of that and one reason why its gone belly up. We had very rich guys coming into the championship and that was not what it was set up for and probably the original posters point, instead of spending something like 50 or 60k on a 'South African' spec BMW 3 series with a 5 series engine etc etc to beat home built specials costing a couple of grand why did said millionaires not go and play in a championship that matched their wallets.