Ralf!

[golem]

Not so much engine saving but tyre saving. That's the thing those Williams seem to have more trouble with. Rears in partic from what we hear.

And while JPM isn't exactly racking up the wins, Ralf has had some poor luck/calls of late.

[Spudgun]

Originally posted by Mania
Thats a very good question actually! I'd like to put that to some of the Pablo-Fanatics on the forum..Ive heard them say stuff like "Oh at least Pablo went off trying to drive on the limit" while "Ralf was just boring and steady on his way to some points".

The Pablo-fanatics(such as R for example) love to bash Ralf for driving to a steady points paying position and yet conviniently turn the other way when Pablo does the same.

So..if I look at it for "their" point of view..Pablo didnt deserve 4th because he was "slow,"boring" and just drove "steadily" instead of trying "harder"!

My point of view is different..certainly...but as the saying goes what goes around comes around and Im enjoying this very much!

"slow,"boring" and just drove "steadily" instead of trying "harder"

JPM did deserve that 4th place.

Yes, both Williams were off the pace, but as for driving steadily and not trying harder then I take it you missed his passing move on RALF for that 4th place?

Ralf may have out-qualified him, Ralf may have been in front early in the race, but Ralf went off and it's the result that counts. That's what is remembered in the record books.

No doubt the tables will be turned in a race before the season is out, but for now, I'm enjoying this very much also..

[Mark Webber]

Monty did deserve 4th IMO Ralf drive a good race in a bad car as did jpm . I still fail to see why we still have a fight over Ralf & jpm BOTH drivers are as good as each other as I have said time & time again ,they are THE BEST driver pair in F1. both have strong points and weak points but Ralf doesn't deserve the bashings either does jpm we should just enjoy the racing .
I'am so over this

[Ralf's Girl]

I'd just like to flag up what is one of very few sensible posts on this thread:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
It was interesting to see JPM being a bit lacklustre whilst Ralf did all the usual JPM things. Y'know like throwing it at the scenery etc.

But as said in another thread. He had problems before his off and his fastest lap was somewhat quicker than one pub's.

But he finished behind one pub (who did make two good moves) so honours would appear to be even so far this year.

On one side we have Ralf fanatics making excuses for the fact that he made a mistake and paid for it.

And on the other we have JPM fanatics constantly reminding everyone that Ralf made a mistake and praising JPM for being "steady" etc. (funny that, when Ralf's "steady" he's usually been boring or he's lucked into the points)

To throw in my two pennorth, I think that Ralf was struggling with the car before his off - let's face it, in comparison to last year's car, that Williams is an absolute pig. He certainly damaged his car when he went off, but he wasn't really on it before that - for most of the race he seemed to be fighting to turn into the corners. All things considered 4th and 5th is a decent result for Williams, although IMO it flatters what is a distinctly average car.

(That was a surprisingly objective post from me. Those of you who remember when I refused to hear a single word against Ralf are probably just getting up from the floor after keeling over with shock )

[Damon]

The difference is that as a part of JPM's "steady" drive, he actually pulled two great passes on people to make up positions on the road. It's this that we don't see from Ralf.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Mania
while Pablo finished over a minute behind the winner of the race despite not having any issues at all during the race. That says it all.

Better to finish a minute behind with no problems, but 2 fantastic overtaking moves than one and a half minutes behind after being overtaken several times, which included chucking it off the road and damaging his car during the process. That says it all.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl
And on the other we have JPM fanatics constantly reminding everyone that Ralf made a mistake

Which is nothing in comparison to what JPM recieves critism wise in everything he does

[TALAMASCA]

JPM is fast and naturally talented(hey if ralf had more speed then where did all of jpms poles come from ) well i feel he's either been stupid or unlucky .... (unluck many more times than stupid oh but how i enjoy those kamakazi moves he pulls )
ralf well he's steady and quick ( does not have the speed to or the balls to be be agressive when it comes to michael )
as far as the race goes the williams was a boat (come on guys where are all the fantastic chassis u produced - remember mansell , prost and jv )
ralf was quicker through the first part , ralf did block CDM more than the precribed once but jpm did drive straight past him .
ralf did well to hold on , jpm did well to come on through

[Damon]

Originally posted by TALAMASCA
...as far as the race goes the williams was a boat (come on guys where are all the fantastic chassis u produced - remember mansell , prost and jv )

They're still in Adrian Newey's brain, trouble is he's no longer employed by Williams.

[Wrex]

Note to Frank: steal Renault chassis designer.

I still don't see what the fuss is about. Ralf drove well. He was quick in qualifying, and despite having a car which was all over the place, defended well against everyone that approached him. He earnt his 5th place.

Monty also, did well to make up positions, hung in there during the 1st stint, progressed and drove an intellingent race. His move on Ralf was fantastic (and a specialty of his) and then went on to collect the points (which is the only thing that matters in the end).

IMO Ralf AND Montoya should be praised for getting more points than the team, car and strategy really deserved.

[Jukebox]

Ralf drove a great race last weekend....blame the chassis and if BMW continue to work with the Williams, they would be in for a great embarassment evidently with Toyota being able to keep pace with them

[bosch!]

Ralph doesnt desevrve his drive, and if he drives to form hes only going to get worse as the season progresses. Its not a great chasis but it seems all you have to do is cruise up behind him jink in his mirrors and wait for him to run wide!

Hes lost it...... if he ever had it.

[Damon]

Originally posted by Wrex
IMO Ralf AND Montoya should be praised for getting more points than the team, car and strategy really deserved.

I'd agree. I also notice that the driver bashing from messers Head and Williams has eased off lately. Well done to Juan and Ralf for not turning the tables and publicly bashing the car I'd say.

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally posted by mr v
Still proving that he doesn't handle pressure too well

i think he's also proving that the car doesn't handle too well, although Montoya is much better!

[TALAMASCA]

"I'd agree. I also notice that the driver bashing from messers Head and Williams has eased off lately. Well done to Juan and Ralf for not turning the tables and publicly bashing the car I'd say. "
they had better keep quiet - i doubt if a williams was ever so bad

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Smokey 6 litre
i think he's also proving that the car doesn't handle too well, although Montoya is much better!

Sorry I don't see the "much better" bit. I do see two drivers of equal capability struggling with a car, for gawd knows what reason.

As to handling pressure? They've both thrown it off the track whilst being pressurized by an opponent.

[John Turner]

Absolutely right Peter, on both counts. Most drivers worth their competitive salt have thrown their cars off the track under pressure, although, at the moment, in the Williams, it is as much the recalcitrance of the car as much as the opposition that's creating that pressure! Just shows that both drivers are prepared to fight hard for their position despite that. Racers in the other words!

[Ralf]

Hmmmm.....
Ralf 4 wins
JPM 1 win

Stop talking *****!

[Snrub]

I'm not particularly interested in the recent race comparo or the comparison in general, it's either boring, people are dismissed as fanatics, or the fanatics ruin it.

...However, does anyone honestly think Ralf has more raw speed then JPM? Does anyone actually think Ralf's 4 wins vs. JPM's 1 fairly represent the talent in any measure between the two?

I'll be honest where I stand, I do cheer for JPM. I do so because I feel he has unrealized potential. It's purely a logical thing. Were he to start to realize success I would move on to cheer for someone else. I never cheered for him in CART and I don't have any strong attachment to any driver. (I don't know them!) Are there any others who do the same? (perhaps some long time Fisi fans?) I never cheer for MS unless he is up against someone unworthy of their success like DC.

[Ralf]

Unworthy opponent like DC?
I like that.

Yeah I used to follow TGF until he was the had the best package then it became dull so I go for the underdogs like Kimi, Alonso, Ralf & JPM.
DC & Rubins are boring & will never be contenders.

On the subject of JPM v Ralf. Obviously I'm a big Ralf fan but I still go for JPM just as much.
They have completely different styles so it's hard to compare.
The main difference is JPM's aggressiveness in overtaking where Ralf seems to be a bit passive in that department.
But Ralf has the results.
Either way they are the most interesting combination in F1.

[Mark Webber]

Originally posted by Snrub
...However, does anyone honestly think Ralf has more raw speed then JPM?

If not the same well!. YES

[krt917]

Ralf, I was with you pretty much until the DC 'never being a contender' bit. I'm not DC's greatest fan, but he does get a hell of a slagging off for no apparent reason. He's often been unlucky (just look at Malaysia and Brazil this year), and is one of the most intelligent drivers on the grid. Oh, and he has 14 (I think!) GP wins to his credit. Correct if I'm wrong, but doesn't that at least make him a 'contender'?

As for Ralf, he has had some difficulties (like fast team-mates!) of late, but is still hardly being blown away by JPM. In fact, I don't buy it that Ralf's off at Barcelona caused his handling problem - I think it was caused BY his handling problem. Before that, he had JPM covered, just like at Imola.

[Smokey 6 litre]

Ralf locked up A LOT in that race, but i always thought that f1 cars have changeable brake bias, why didn't he do this, and why didn't Montoya have the same problem.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Smokey 6 litre
Ralf locked up A LOT in that race, but i always thought that f1 cars have changeable brake bias, why didn't he do this, and why didn't Montoya have the same problem.

You can change the bias as much as you l.ike but there comes a point when all you do is reduce the retardation. And if you brake really late you will always lock the inside front wheel.

I suspect JPM didn't do that because he wasn't a) travelling as fast at the time and, b) he never had a car behind him pressurizing him into seriously late braking.