JPM better than Gilles ?

[BootsOntheSide]

Its about 180 more than you see throughout the fied in an entire F1 season though.

[Snrub]

Going a bit off topic, but do we have any credible evidence that any of the fundimental design of the F25 is tailored to JPM more than Ralf? As for the past, wouldn't test drivers have had more input into the design refinements?

[Damon]

The Williams' aren't totally taiored to one driver like the Ferrari is but they will obviously be built to get the best result for the race drivers. The test drivers will work more and systems and endurance, but the characteristics and handling are very much dictated by the race drivers.

As for JPM's oversteer skill...mr v was kind enough to send me a very well put together clip of JPM's 2000 Cart Season and it really does show what he was capable of in a car that depends on its driver. In Cart he was always incredibly quick on cold tyres and in the wet. His car control is quite simply superb and is only missed by those that don't want to see it.

[Snrub]

I don't know...it's always said that a good race car driver will adapt their style to the car and circumstances. In CART JPM actually had times where he drove smoothly during fuel runs and was quiet good at it.

[Fiorentina 1]

Montoya better then Gilles? God no! Heck, Montoya isn't better then Arnoux in his prime!

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

Gordon Kirby is a George W Bush type insular American. He said as late as 96 that Al(pass me aother drink)Unser Jr was a superior racing driver than Michael Schumacher. Like a lot of Americans, he has struggled with the fact that his home country does not produce racing drivers of the quality of Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher etc and he will always try to put an American spin on things.

Any CART driver that does well according to him is automatically an "American." This includes Jacque Villenueve as well as JPM, and will undoubtedly include Christiano Da Matta if he does well this year. This is also irrespective of the fact that for 30 years US single seat racing has been all about British March/Lola/Reynard chassis driven with tremendous success by Europeans and South Americans.

This also conveniently ignores the fact that JPM was a Williams test driver, merely loaned out by Williams to CHip Ganassi, who destroyed the CART field in his maiden season in a British car. How about considering JPM as an F1 test driver who ****d on the imcumbent CART field. Colombia is hardly a state of the US is it? He treats JV in a similar way as if the Monaqesque "Fench Canadian" is an all singing, all dancing US boy.

Take my word for it, worldwide readers can ignore and denounce Gordon Kirby's writings as excessively nationalistic and biased at the very least. Gordon Kirby has, let's say, "issues" which he has never been able to deal with. Even Nigel Roebuck of Autosport, a fair and sporting Englishman if ever there was one, has mentioned in his internet column (in a most polite fashion), that he "does not necessarily agree with his colleague" on certain views on CART vs F1 drivers expressed in GK's writings on the same site when NR has been on holiday.

Ignore this obnoxious US journalist's views, they come from neither a logical, pleasant or intelligent standpoint.

[Damon]

It certainly seems that way! The basic idea isn't that far fetched, JPM has it in him, but at this stage he's not there yet and proclaiming that he is is more than a little blinkered.

[Sato san]

I actually think Gordan Kirby is a very good journalist .......in saying that , i think the comments are meant more of the promise that Juan holds than the actual present form .

[Prost!]

Originally posted by fousto
Well lets see is he > JV finishs 2 in wdc 1st year despite being held back > JV win WDC 2 yr with williams > JPM has done ?????

A Rookie's Maiden Reply:

I'm unsure why being "World Champion" is always the ultimate measure of a driver's greatness in the minds of a good amount of fans. Was Mike Hawthorn a Stirling Moss?

Funny too, how Jody Scheckter's name rarely comes up (esp. since Schumi's 3rd title effectively rendered his name the wrong answer to a trivia question!), and most certainly would never be uttered in the same breath as the revered (and rightfully so!),Gilles Villeneuve.

As I recall William's pilot, Nigel Mansell, explaining in a post-race conference in '92, "the car was so good, a monkey could've seen it to the chequered flag today".

Remember, Damon Hill - though a very good racer in his own right - nearly won two championships in the non-Mclaren dominated, Michael Schumacher era. For me, Damon fits neatly in a category with the aforementioned, Hawthorn's and Scheckter's of GP racing -- very fast & more than capable drivers, but not extraordinary like Moss, Gilles, or Schumacher.

I must admit, I enjoy Jacques' style immensely. Moreover, I still believe he's one of the major talents despite his questionable level of motivation. But, to address the original poster's statement, I will use Nige's past alludings, that any solid pilot could have tasted victory in a Williams during this 6-7 year stretch with few exceptions -- including JPM.

Recall, that JPM & Jacques, displayed their enormous talents on a more evenly balanced CART playing field. JPM has incredible car control and as posted several times over, his flat-out, oversteering drives on the ovals were awe inspiring. Remember too, CART machines never have nor do produced the downforce on such ovals that their rival "racing" dog-show, IRL crapwagons do.

The CART machine possibly, is far closer to the F1 machines of old, where a driver's immense talent for handling a recalcitrant machine around a circuit was more readily observable.

Consider the likes of a Ronnie Peterson or a Keke Rosberg hustling around a modern F1 machine. Their awe inspiring car handling skills would go largely unnoticed in today's ultra-high tech era.

That said, with the right car it's fair to presuppose, a racer like JPM, will have his day in F1.

[Jordi]

(applause)

[ASCII Man]

Excellent post, Prost!

[Damon]

Very well put Prost and welcome to Ten-Tenths!

[NiceGuyEddie]

Very well said.

[trickle]

I would have to agree with Armco.
Simply The Greatest

[Sato san]

Originally posted by Prost!
A Rookie's Maiden Reply:

For me, Damon fits neatly in a category with the aforementioned, Hawthorn's and Scheckter's of GP racing -- very fast & more than capable drivers, but not extraordinary like Moss, Gilles, or Schumacher.

that's is put brilliantly ....spot on

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by I Ate Yoko Ono
Like a lot of Americans, he has struggled with the fact that his home country does not produce racing drivers of the quality of Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher etc and he will always try to put an American spin on things.

From English author Roger Horton, at Atlas F1:

"Interestingly it was Jim Clark's father, who at his son's funeral took Dan Gurney aside and told him that he (Gurney) was the only driver Jim had ever feared on the race tracks of the world."

So suck on that, ya damn eurosnob!

Our drivers make the Finns lose sleep at the Michelin Race of Champions every year!

Watch the Telefonica World Series this year, Paul Edwards is a future superstar!

If only Ford and GM would support American drivers, there wouldn't be a single championship we couldn't claim!

Oh, and CART has graduated four of their last five champions to F1, that's more than F3000 or any other series can boast!!!

[JonesF1]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
So suck on that, ya damn eurosnob!

Thats all that needed to be said.

[Jordi]

Let's not get too patriotic here... I personally don't give a thing whether the driver is from here or there. De la Rosa is Catalan, but I prefer Canadian Jacques Villeneuve...

[Prost!]

posted by Lee Janotta
So suck on that, ya damn eurosnob!

roger that, lee!

Oh, and thanks for the warm welcomings & thumbs up, boys! Looking forward to engaging a bit more rather than only reading many of your superb posts!

Prost!


- John, nearby Laguna Seca Raceway

[bcobbus]

I my mind there has not been a regular American in F1 since Cheever in the 80's because of the emerging power of NASCAR and the big money it draws. Their are some really talented people in NASCAR that I think could do well on the world's stage, it's just that the money is bigger in NASCAR and that's where people seem to think its at this day in age. Also here in the states, up until the recent Red Bull promotion deal to sponsor young Americans in European Formulas, there has been no program or means of assistance for European open wheel racing. Like I said, everything gravitates towards NASCAR. Today I wached a great American road racer Jimmy Vasser race in the NASCAR Busch race at Daytona, even though on the last lap he was punted into the wall by some savage, he still was in the top 5-10 all day long, in his first race!

[bcobbus]

Oh ya, Gilles would eat Montoya for breakfast!

[z2252314]

mr v was kind enough to send me a very well put together clip of JPM's 2000 Cart Season and it really does show what he was capable of in a car that depends on its driver.

Its funny how whenever someone refers to JPM's handling skills they always refer back to his carting days for evidence. The fact remains, that in F1 whenever the car has been handling poorly, Ralf has got the better of him.

If only Ford and GM would support American drivers, there wouldn't be a single championship we couldn't claim!

Its quite possible that an American could make it to the top of the motorsport world. However, as long as they are brought up in series such as NASCAR and CART, it will never happen. The fact is, they arent developing enough skills by going around in circles full throotle for 500 laps.

Take my word for it, worldwide readers can ignore and denounce Gordon Kirby's writings as excessively nationalistic and biased at the very least

We dont need to take your word for it, the quote itself is silly enough to make all serious F1 fans realise how ignorant this journalist is.

[Prost!]

Originally posted by bcobbus
Their are some really talented people in NASCAR that I think could do well on the world's stage

Aside from J's, Gordon & Andretti, who could even fit in an F1 car?!

Prost!

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Jordi
Let's not get too patriotic here... I personally don't give a thing whether the driver is from here or there. De la Rosa is Catalan, but I prefer Canadian Jacques Villeneuve...

"Oh well, my hope is that ALL posts will be talking about Oriol as he'll be the surprise leader after St. Pete.... "

Right Jordi, you don't give your countrymen any support.

Nationalism in small doses is healthy and fun.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by z2252314
Its quite possible that an American could make it to the top of the motorsport world. However, as long as they are brought up in series such as NASCAR and CART, it will never happen. The fact is, they arent developing enough skills by going around in circles full throotle for 500 laps.

You really don't have _any_ damn idea what you're talking about, do you?

The CART Champcar series spends nearly it's entire schedule these days on a mixture of road courses and urban street circuits. There are only 3 ovals on the schedule this year!

And I'll put Laguna Seca, Elkhart Lake, and effing BRANDS HATCH against any 3 circuits on the F1 calendar!