Interesting Item on New Chassis in Indy Star (Merged)

[gttouring]

So what is the latest? I haven't heard a thing except for IRL having a 'mini championship' in the series making it laughable and establishing an avenue for a new split. -ugh 10 more years of bad fat slow open wheel sleds

[JagtechOhio]

I'm getting an education in aerodynamics from Swift Engineering Chief Scientist Mark Page, check out the link below if you're interested.

If you weigh his comments carefully, it would be a treat to read your thoughts as well. This link takes you to the first entry, and the link after the article takes you to part two:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...swift-response

[HJJ]

Lola's sales pitch per Kirby.

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no232.html

[bjohnsonsmith]

I thought this comment by Steve Charlsey was really interesting:

"The next item is affordability. Because of the economic climate we have to work to a budget and that means it still has to be a single-make series. We would love to have two or three manufacturers out there but that would escalate costs. It would be great for competition and great for us. We'd love it, but if they want to keep to a budget it's not going to work. But maybe it's just a band-aid for the next three to four years when times change and we can go back to the old ways. We have to aspire to get it to where it was once again."

I wonder how far down the road the IRL are looking?

I still think Lola have the best package, especially with the shared tub; that's going to save a lot of money.

[JagtechOhio]

Those two issues are related. There won't be more than one new chassis until the market will support it, which won't be sooner than Charlsey suggests. That's the biggest reason for my support of keeping the old cars in competition.

The cost of the car isn't really the problem for aspiring IndyCar entrants. The IndyLights grid is very patchwork as it is, and the huge money it takes to move up includes only about 25% in equipment costs at most.

If and when an owner like Sam Schmidt or Brian Herta was able to make the jump, the $150K or so that he will save by re-using his Lola tub will be a drop in the bucket. I don't know what the Lights budget would be per car per season, if the guess is $2M that probably covers it. It takes more than $5M easy to run with the big boys.

So the upgrade package is a nice idea, but it is a very minor selling point.

One of the things that seemed apparent from reading Swift's info is that they must be thinking along the same lines as Lola about the tunnels. Big tunnels for the majority of the downforce, and tunnel blockers to reduce it for ovals. Alternate undertrays is likely considered as too expensive.

If anyone knows how well the tunnel blocker idea worked for the CART cars, please clue me in. I haven't found much info on it.

It sure would be nice to have Swift prove the claims about wake reduction of their rear wing. If it works, what's the problem with using the design to build a set and fit them to the current Dallaras?

Lots of magic flying around on the whole subject. If this was an exact science, the answers would be well-known and universal. Instead what we see is central tunnels, parallel tunnels, and all sorts of wing configurations. That doesn't seem like proof to me that all these guys know how it is going to work on the track.

Making huge tunnels and adding blockers to them is one example: they can calculate the resultant downforce, but do they know for sure from CFD what the wake will look like?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Those two issues are related. There won't be more than one new chassis until the market will support it, which won't be sooner than Charlsey suggests. That's the biggest reason for my support of keeping the old cars in competition.

I know they are related and it was good to see Lola fully understand the situation.

How much does a tub cost to buy?

[JagtechOhio]

What, an imaginary one? Not much.

If you consider the maximum projected cost of $400K for the complete package, and then see that everything except the tub has to be swapped out, you can make a guess at what the bare tub costs. Mine was $150K, but I imagined it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

What, an imaginary one? Not much.

If you consider the maximum projected cost of $400K for the complete package, and then see that everything except the tub has to be swapped out, you can make a guess at what the bare tub costs. Mine was $150K, but I imagined it.

Imaginary or not I have no idea how much a tub is, which is why I asked. You reckon about $150K. I don't call that a drop in the ocean. It all adds up, especially in the current economic climate; though it looks like it could get worse again. You now only have to fork out for one tub as opposed to two, I think that's a good selling point. You've now got $150K which can be used on something else or not spent at all. Makes alot of sense if you are a small team on a tight budget.

[JagtechOhio]

It's a good drop in a big bucket.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

It's a good drop in a big bucket.

A sizeable drop; you can do alot with $150k.

[JagtechOhio]

OK, call me an idiot if you want. I'm pressing the case, and hoping to attract more input from people smarter than me who can teach me something.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...st_published=1

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

A sizeable drop; you can do alot with $150k.

Not really when $5m is required for a season, it is hardly make or break unfortunately.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Not really when $5m is required for a season, it is hardly make or break unfortunately.

Compared to $5m it isn't a lot but if I were a team principal the fact I could save on having to buy a new tub if I was upgrading my team from Indy Lights to IRL would be appealing, especially if I had a two car team. I wouldn't want to spend money unecessarily when I didn't have to. It's makes basic economic sense.

[JagtechOhio]

h

[JagtechOhio]

Maybe I found a little nugget, maybe not. If you're inclined, have a look and let me know what you think:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...ce-reduction-1

[bjohnsonsmith]

I don't know if anyone has seen this but it's an rFactor simulation of Delta Wings racing at TMS. It looks odd, as if you'd expect them to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFD9j...layer_embedded

[Purist]

The cheesy engine sounds don't exactly help either.

[JagtechOhio]

Today (4/21) on "Trackside"

Bowlby said no Delta Wing prototype is under construction. The solid foam body that was displayed in Chicago and on the wind tunnel test video is all there is. It's at Indy now.

Supposedly Firestone is working on tires, and some gomer said that Honda was working on a 1.5L four cylinder to fit it. All smoke and mirrors so far.

[mountainstar]

I'm sure it comes down to not committing money until a deal is signed.

Seems like they got it all figured out on Rfactor but it needs to work in the real world and I'm not convinced.

[JagtechOhio]

At one point they said they were trying to attract State funding.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

At one point they said they were trying to attract State funding.

State funding for the Delta Wing?

[JagtechOhio]

Dan Partel is the Managing Director of Delta Wing:

"Partel is currently trying to work out an agreement with the IRL that would permit funding for the Delta Wing project from the state of Indiana."

http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no223.html

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

Dan Partel is the Managing Director of Delta Wing:

"Partel is currently trying to work out an agreement with the IRL that would permit funding for the Delta Wing project from the state of Indiana."

http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no223.html

I had a quick read of that. There's certainly an agenda behind the Delta Wing but do we have to suffer the Dallara for three more years? I don't know if that's such a good idea.

[gttouring]

i am sstarting to really like the delta wing, and the look- although i would move indy car to a more robust configuration of engine- with less rebuild time between than a 1.6L turbo would expect...i mean the Cosworth XFE glorious (it should be called) sounded great ran great and went 1500 race miles between builds in many competitive cars.
i would make a 2L or a 2.4L 4cyl. turbo engine as that is very common in production blocks already (if 4 is indeed the only option)
i also read this Gordon kirby article over the last as well

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no235.html

Delta Wing has done alot of homework

[bjohnsonsmith]

This is worth a read:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83963