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21 Jul 2008, 10:52 (Ref:2255204) | #76 | |||
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-- there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas |
21 Jul 2008, 11:24 (Ref:2255220) | #77 | ||
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Surely they could build their own low-tech car? It could even use an aluminium honeycomb chassis like FPA ...
Here's my demented idea, Max wouldn't ever go for anything like this and it wouldn't necessarily work. Oh well, here it goes (Mods, if other people start posting their idea I apologize profusely for thread derailment and encourage it to be split). New Formula 2 proposal Calendar : Runs on undercard of European F1 rounds (not Istanbul) plus Pau. FP and Quali : Free practice of 45 minutes on Friday, followed by 30 minutes of qualifing on Saturday. Races : Two back-to-back races of 40 minutes with a fifteen minute intermission. Second race has a rolling start (race 1 order) and only race 2 award points. Like NASCAR's intermission system for the CTS (this rule means teams won't need pit stop specialists and TV can go for a commerical break). Cost cutting measure : There will be limits in the amount of repairs that can be done to a car during a weekend as an anti-Yuji Ide and cost cutting measure. Rough outline of cars Chassis supply : Chassis makers run the cars like Max's proposed Formula 2 - HOWEVER Formula 2 will not be a single make series. Chassis makers may a rolling example to the FIA. If the chassis is approved for F2, the chassis must be available for a team that wants it for a season at the single price agreed - Max's figure of €200,000 is probably impossible. Similar to Max's idea there will be a lottery of all the drivers of that type of chassis+engine pairing to decide who gets which chassis. Standard parts : Much of the car will be provided in a Formula 2 Kit - a gearbox (6 speed H-pattern to cut costs), a spec aero package (single element full width front and rear wings), brakes and tyres (rock hard slicks, three sets per weekend) Engines : Straight from the road car 3.5 V6 units fitted with a standardized supercharger. Engine equalisation : Prior to the season the FIA will run the engines on a rolling road. If there is any major discrepancy in power (+ or - 5% of the average) the FIA reserve the right to adjust rev limits, blower pressures or compression ratios of engines. Engine rebuilds : Engine rebuilds during weekends will be banned and engines cannot be replaced unless they are destroyed during the season. Engine and chassis pairings : Each chassis type must have two engines available unless it is a factory team or a Formula One constructor building them. |
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
24 Jul 2008, 00:28 (Ref:2256903) | #78 | |
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Road engines, approve first chassis and performance equalization? Might as well call if Grand Am Formula Two! I'll dump my suggestions here tomorrow.
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
25 Jul 2008, 09:19 (Ref:2257647) | #79 | ||
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Jimmy, the chassis approval is more of a measure for crash testing and safety than anything else. Not a matter of "no, that's banned because it's too fast".
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
28 Jul 2008, 00:49 (Ref:2258751) | #80 | |
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Right. Here's my thoughts then.
Engines - Basically LMP2-ish. 3.4L NA engines and max 8 cylinders, 4.0L for production based engines (min 1000/yr); max 2.0L and six cylinders if you turbocharge the engine. An engine should last the season or thereabouts. Engine supply cannot be exclusive, it has to be offered at the same price to all teams. Chassis - Has to fit an imaginary box yay wide and yay long. Cannot have any winglets or other such things; front and rear wing both has to fit their own boxes. Rear wing shall only have a single plane. It is up to the team if they want to buy a chassi or build their own. Teams are free to use any chassis which comply to the regulations, regardless if they were constructed for another series to begin with, with one exception: automotive manufacturers who produce X number of cars each year (basically bigger than a specialist independet manuf.) are not allowed to be constructors. Gearboxes - Nothing too advanced. There must be no more than six forward gears and one reverse gear, and they must be operated by a proper gear stick. Tires - Slicks will be used, and there will be a single tire supplier. These tires must be quite hard and not have much grip. Entrants - Automotive manufacturers and Formula One entrants may not run Formula Two teams. A team is free to run between one and two cars. Entry fees are paid either for the full season at a discount or round by round. A team is free to enter as many or as few rounds as they like. There is no limit on driver replacements, neither is there a limit to the number of entries for a weekend. The top thirteen teams from the previous season's team's championship table are guaranteed a place in regular qualifying. If the entries from the top thirteen teams does not reach 26 cars for the weekend cars will be added from teams that placed 14th and below until 26 cars have a guaranteed place in the qualifying session. Those who do not have a guaranteed place in the qualifying session will run pre-qualifying at Friday morning, where eight cars will advance to take part in the main qualifying session. The top 30 cars in main qualifying qualifies for the race, with the exception of Monaco and Pau, where the top 26 qualify. There will not be any limits on repairs, as accidents do happen. At the halfway point of the season the team's championship table as it is then will be used instead of previous season's to determine guaranteed qualifying slots. Races - Held on Saturdays supporting nine European F1 events, except for the standalone Pau race which his run on a Sunday. The races are to be 80 minutes long, with no mandatory pit stops and a ban on refueling. Championships - Points will be awared to the top ten finishers (16-12-10-8-7-5-4-3-2-1). Two championships will be awarded, the driver's and team's championships. |
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
28 Jul 2008, 01:34 (Ref:2258761) | #81 | ||
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29 Jul 2008, 11:59 (Ref:2259559) | #82 | ||||||||
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-- there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas |
29 Jul 2008, 15:06 (Ref:2259670) | #83 | |
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I left ground effect out as I want cars to slide around a lot, which is not how you make a ground effect car go fast. And yes, the cars shouldn't be very aero dependent.
And yes, 80 minutes is about the length of some GP's these days. Therefore GP length should be increased to about 1hr50 - 2hrs, and get its own rules overhaul (which includes a ban on refueling). The GP calendar should be reconfigured to include better races, but I'll leave that to another thread. |
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
30 Jul 2008, 13:24 (Ref:2260311) | #84 | ||||||||||
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As for current GPs, I don't feel comfortable with drivers racing for 2 hours around Bahrain, I appreciate that races were longer. |
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
30 Jul 2008, 14:29 (Ref:2260342) | #85 | |||||||||
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1. Brazilian GP, Interlagos 2. Portuguese GP, Estoril 3. San Marino GP, Imola 4. Spanish GP, Jerez 5. Monaco GP 6. Canadian GP, Montreal 7. United States GP, Road Atlanta 8. French GP, Paul Ricard (restored to a proper circuit with grass) 9. British GP, Silverstone 10. German GP, Hockenheim (Old forest circuit) 11. Czech GP, Brno 12. Belgian GP, Spa 13. Italian GP, Monza 14. European GP, Nurburgring 15. Japanese GP, Suzuka 16. Australian GP, Adelaide F2 wouldn't be at the Estoril race to delay the start of the season, but at all of the other European races. Pau would be held during F1's American trip. |
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
30 Jul 2008, 16:37 (Ref:2260377) | #86 | |||||||||||
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1 car team - Win = 10 points 2 car team - Win + 8th = 11 points 3 car team - Win + 8th + DNF = 10 points Quote:
Dallara - 1st, out of points, out of points, out of points, out of points Lola - 2nd, 8th, out of points, out of points Epsilon Euskadi - 3rd, 7th, out of points Panoz - 4th, 6th Prodrive - 5th The best results are in bold. The worst results are in italics. The bold results and the italic results count. Quote:
Besides, I still think that TV won't particularly like races that length and I am still queasy about lengthening GPs due driver fatigue. It's not like golf where if you screw up the ball goes in to the trees ... the car goes in to armco. |
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Marbot : "Ironically, the main difference between a Red Bull and a Virgin is that Red Bull can make parts of its car smaller and floppier." |
31 Jul 2008, 13:14 (Ref:2260962) | #87 | |
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Which team do you think will follow F2 (is it will ever start)? GP" teams? F3 Eurocup team? Or maybe Euroseries 3000 teams as the Series is going to finisgìh at the end of this season....
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31 Jul 2008, 13:43 (Ref:2260982) | #88 | |||
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I reckon we'll see the teams that are usually in a lot of single seater championsips like Carlin, Manor etc. According to Autosport today the plan is for F2 to run seperatly from any other FIA series as a standalone event. |
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
31 Jul 2008, 14:18 (Ref:2261009) | #89 | ||
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Aha, back to the good old days where F.3000 races were watched by five people and a dog (that was an Autosport pic caption that I still remember)
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31 Jul 2008, 16:39 (Ref:2261098) | #90 | ||
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Anyone think that the format of F2 proposed by the FIA would be better suited to a GP Masters style championship? Have them run 5 races a year as support for the British, French, German, Italian and Belgian GPs.
Heres my idea of Formula 2:
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
31 Jul 2008, 21:46 (Ref:2261289) | #91 | |||
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8 Aug 2008, 09:28 (Ref:2265795) | #92 | ||
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Heard from someone that should know that we might as well forget F2 for 2009
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8 Aug 2008, 22:51 (Ref:2266145) | #93 | ||
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That's none of surprised, I'd be surprised if they start the season next year, haven't heard them signing up to any series weekend, they must start promotion NOW to start up in May... We don't know required budgets, any sponsorship collisions, etc.
I think it'd be easier to quickly sign chassis producer, because Lola got them FNippon chassis, if they can buy them out, from whoever owner is, or will be, they got chassis straight from start. |
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14 Aug 2008, 15:11 (Ref:2269083) | #94 | ||
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Italiaracing announce that Mygale will be the chassis manufacturer, BMW will provide the engine and Palmer will be in charge of the maintenance. The same article says that this new Formula2 will be also sharing the calender between F1 Week ends and WTCC.
Basicly same concept as GP3/Formula Master Again a funny informations from italiaracing if you consider that the Tender ends up on 29th of August http://argent.fia.com/web/appeloffre.nsf/F1E0E744E187FA96C1257483004C294E/$FILE/AO%20cars%202009,2011.pdf?openelement Last edited by META4; 14 Aug 2008 at 15:13. |
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14 Aug 2008, 17:43 (Ref:2269149) | #95 | ||
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Palmer Promosport spec Mygale-BMW then......
Ooh my mouth's watering....... These should make for a challenge for drivers and exciting for fans then! |
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14 Aug 2008, 20:33 (Ref:2269267) | #96 | ||
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A glorified FPA, how exciting indeed. If all FIA can do is this then it is no wonder they are pretty much messing up in everything they are running.
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17 Aug 2008, 03:35 (Ref:2270336) | #97 | ||
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One more chassis supplier please... it doesn't need to be so experienced, Mosley could make movements to revive March/Simtek/Wirth Eng./whatever to create another chassis maker aside Mygale.
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18 Aug 2008, 14:24 (Ref:2270970) | #98 | |||
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-- there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas |
4 Sep 2008, 21:17 (Ref:2281925) | #99 | ||
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If you look at F1 a good driver has to find money to run 2 years in F3 (let's say 2x 500.000,-) & then 2 years gp2 (even if half the drive is funded by the team that's still 750k a year). So your looking at 2.5mio tot 3.5mio just to run, without any paycheck. And then you'll have to fight it out with 25 others to hopefully get a chance in f1. I think there have been many possible gp-winners that saw their career end early because of budget-issues. IF (and that's a big if) the FIA (and the manufacturer backing this F2 serie) can make it happen that the topdrivers in this new-f2 serie can get rides in GP2 based on performance in F2 (and not $) then imo this f2 serie would be a major improvement. |
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4 Sep 2008, 23:01 (Ref:2281986) | #100 | ||
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In today's Autosport it's confirmed that Palmer has submitted a tender, with cars featuring design input from WilliamsF1
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70266 |
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formula 2, silly season |
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