What is wrong with Redbull? - Page 4

wolfhound · 4 Sep 2015, 18:42 (Ref:3571422)

I can't see a Mercedes powered RB with Infiniti written all over them either.

mikuni · 5 Sep 2015, 09:03 (Ref:3571499)

McLaren wouldn't let Honda supply another top team.

Kempi · 5 Sep 2015, 11:49 (Ref:3571517)

Wolfhound: the Infinity sponsoring is connected to the engine deal. It would not be there with a different engine.

wolfhound · 6 Sep 2015, 19:52 (Ref:3571958)

Autosport is reporting that Red Bull will not use Renault engines next season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120696

Its now a question of whether there will be a prancing horse or a three point star under the Red Bull engine covers. If they don't get the latter then it will be Ferrari as Ferrari seem happy to deal with RB.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 6 Sep 2015, 21:32 (Ref:3571984)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kempi

Wolfhound: the Infinity sponsoring is connected to the engine deal. It would not be there with a different engine.

Infiniti are owned by Nissan, so how does that tie in with the Renault engine deal?

**Adam43** · 6 Sep 2015, 21:46 (Ref:3571989)

Nissan and Renault own a decent chunk of each other. Although I believe Renault have voting rights at Nissan, but not the other way. Ther was something recently where the Feench government bought more of Renault to stop thus. [/OT]

**bjohnsonsmith** · 6 Sep 2015, 22:08 (Ref:3571998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Nissan and Renault own a decent chunk of each other. Although I believe Renault have voting rights at Nissan, but not the other way. Ther was something recently where the Feench government bought more of Renault to stop thus. [/OT]

It's one of those relationships.

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 00:36 (Ref:3572014)

Is that from the same reliable source that said there would be an announcement confirming the Renault takeover of Lotus this past weekend?

If the report is true Renault either have to take over Lotus or walk away or RB have been told the takeover is definitely on and they aren't going to play the customer game with Renault. If it was true then RB must already have a motor supply in place and that seems less than likely to me. I think BE will kick MB in the gonads and get an engine for next year but things don't look rosy at the moment.

Razor · 7 Sep 2015, 00:55 (Ref:3572018)

Well, both RBR and Torro Rosso have used Ferrari before. But the question is that, would the Ferrari power unit be the same spec as what is in the main team?

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 01:00 (Ref:3572020)

The biggest issue in all this is that RB want to win and not be using motors that are constrained like MB admit to doing and Ferrari have always done and won't admit to doing and Renault did and couldn't avoid doing as it just came naturally to them. Bernie must be busier than a one armed wall paper hanger in a strong wind trying to keep everything the right way up!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 7 Sep 2015, 01:08 (Ref:3572023)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

The biggest issue in all this is that RB want to win and not be using motors that are constrained like MB admit to doing and Ferrari have always done and won't admit to doing and Renault did and couldn't avoid doing as it just came naturally to them. Bernie must be busier than a one armed wall paper hanger in a strong wind trying to keep everything the right way up!

Time to bring back the DFV.

Razor · 7 Sep 2015, 01:29 (Ref:3572026)

Cosworth with Ford Ecoboost branding?

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 01:31 (Ref:3572027)

We will never see the same circumstances that prevailed and the DFV enjoyed. Give them a capacity limit and build what you want was the thinking then and the manufacturers did it and there was success and some superb duds built by manufacturers and some who had a modicum of success when reality dictated they should not have. It won't happen again.

The machinations surrounding Renault/RB/Lotus must be reaching a tipping point within a very short space of time. We are in the last quarter of the year and that leaves very little time to design and implement a competitive car. If RB continue and do not walk away but change motor supplier then their chances of being podium competitive next year are fairly dim due to lack of time and it also affects any move that Renault might make on Lotus for the same reason.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 7 Sep 2015, 01:32 (Ref:3572028)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Cosworth with Ford Ecoboost branding?

As long as it works, why not?

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 02:14 (Ref:3572044)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As long as it works, why not?

Using that criteria they should use a LS series V8 and put a blower on it, 1000hp without thinking about it and you can get them at the corner grocery store for peanuts. I have yet to work out why we have to have a bespoke motor that costs 24 million dollars. Oh, I know, because it is F1 and we need to do everything differently so it costs more.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 7 Sep 2015, 02:30 (Ref:3572046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Using that criteria they should use a LS series V8 and put a blower on it, 1000hp without thinking about it and you can get them at the corner grocery store for peanuts. I have yet to work out why we have to have a bespoke motor that costs 24 million dollars. Oh, I know, because it is F1 and we need to do everything differently so it costs more.

Your last sentence, pretty much says it all but I would add: F1 needs to do everything differently because it thinks it's better than any other motorsports series because it's F1.

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 02:33 (Ref:3572047)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Your last sentence, pretty much says it all but I would add: F1 needs to do everything differently because it thinks it's better than any other motorsports series because it's F1.

The epitome of elitism!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 7 Sep 2015, 02:43 (Ref:3572050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

The epitome of elitism!

It would seem so.

wolfhound · 7 Sep 2015, 07:10 (Ref:3572100)

The latest reports suggest that RB will not be able to get Mercedes power units next season.

http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/red...e-all-but-over

That leaves RB with two options, do a deal with Ferrari or stay with Renault and it seems that the latter not going to happen. It will be interesting to see where all this ends up as Red Bull seem to be backing themselves into a corner.

knighty · 7 Sep 2015, 11:13 (Ref:3572156)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

The latest reports suggest that RB will not be able to get Mercedes power units next season.

http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/red...e-all-but-over

That leaves RB with two options, do a deal with Ferrari or stay with Renault and it seems that the latter not going to happen. It will be interesting to see where all this ends up as Red Bull seem to be backing themselves into a corner.

It appears that Manor will be the Honda 2nd team, and this will free up an engine deal for RedBull, as next year Ferrari are supplying many teams.....but surely there is no way they will get Ferrari A-spec engines, they will just be another Ferrari B-spec engine customer ranked alongside Sauber, HAAS and Manor, I cannot imagine any high ranking Red Bull decision makers have the balls to bet on Honda having fixed all their problems by march 2016......they are probably happy to just play second fiddle to the works teams to bide their time before an A-spec engine option comes their way from Honda or another new manufacturer entering the sport, like Audi or Porsche, therefore for the next year or two I dont see RedBull being in any form of championship contention.

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 12:21 (Ref:3572174)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

The latest reports suggest that RB will not be able to get Mercedes power units next season.

http://uk.motorsport.com/f1/news/red...e-all-but-over

That leaves RB with two options, do a deal with Ferrari or stay with Renault and it seems that the latter not going to happen. It will be interesting to see where all this ends up as Red Bull seem to be backing themselves into a corner.

More wishful journalism than hard facts in that story. As soon as they start spouting on about knowledgeable sources etc my eyes glaze over and I switch off. The reporting is another problem with F1, none of the media have got the guts to or ability to write a real factual story. They are afraid they will be sent to Coventry if they do or they are just pseudo journos who haven't got a clue on how to find and write facts.

JamesH · 7 Sep 2015, 13:41 (Ref:3572191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Using that criteria they should use a LS series V8 and put a blower on it, 1000hp without thinking about it and you can get them at the corner grocery store for peanuts.

Wouldn't there be a massive weight problem? The V8 would weigh quite a bit, and fuel consumption would necessitate huge tanks or fuel stops.

And of course, people would still spend many millions getting more horse power out of them.

Casper · 7 Sep 2015, 14:17 (Ref:3572195)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

Wouldn't there be a massive weight problem? The V8 would weigh quite a bit, and fuel consumption would necessitate huge tanks or fuel stops.

And of course, people would still spend many millions getting more horse power out of them.

The LS V8 is a very light motor but so what. You can get a 1000hp out of one without taking the heads off IIRC, if not very close to it and massive torque as well. There is no reason why F1 should run a bespoke multi million dollar motor when a far simpler answer will give the same performance. Back in the day when engines were rubbish I can see the point of a DFV but these days the road cars have got motors that can be made to give near enough to the same performance if not more for MILLIONS less. Where is the sense in that?

It would be impossible to spend millions on one as all the bits are available to make way more HP than the current F1 motors. That is just one motor, there are others that would do the same. it won't happen of course but it is good fun to talk about it and it will upset the purists.

TRuss · 7 Sep 2015, 17:41 (Ref:3572232)

Minus the blower you're describing F5000. Which was great but, it wasn't F1. It's long been decided that the top teams are going to spend what they are going to spend. The technical regs have nothing to do with it. I feel that if F1 is supposed to be the top tier then it's supposed to lead the way in the development of new ideas and technology. I'm not saying that is currently the case. But. If you're going go around calling yourself the pinnacle then you better damn we'll be the pinnacle.

ASCII Man · 7 Sep 2015, 19:43 (Ref:3572258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRuss

I feel that if F1 is supposed to be the top tier then it's supposed to lead the way in the development of new ideas and technology. I'm not saying that is currently the case. But. If you're going go around calling yourself the pinnacle then you better damn we'll be the pinnacle.

It's a good idea for F1 to consider becoming the pinnacle of motorsport some day, as it sure hasn't even been close in over 20-30 years.

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