The Rain Light & MSA Rant Thread

[johnw]

Main sticking point is insurance Denis. But people are working on it!

Two cars - of course. Doh! More Meldrew points methinks

[Al Weyman]

I suppose I will do what I do with me belts, fit it so i can quickly swap it between the two (tight wad I know).

[johnw]

Must be possible to make a quick release plug I should think.

[GordonG]

If only Spedeworth did left hand corners...

G

[greenamex2]

Drifting and that Time Attack series seem to be outside the MSA as well.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by GordonG

If only Spedeworth did left hand corners...

G

They do dont they? Figure of eight!

[brickkicker]

One thing that I dont think has been picked up on yet and that supprises me is the statement about the 'centre line' we all asume that its in the horizontal but you could take it to be in the vertical There is one for you to argue out in the scrutineering bay

[Al Weyman]

And can any one tell me whats wrong with this one for under a tenner or £8 inc vat if you buy a box of 10? This bloke is in it for profit so as i said previously (here or somewhere else) these things cannot cost more than a couple of quid to manufacture.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bulk-pack-10-x...QQcmdZViewItem

See this is the thing I dont really have a problem fitting one of these lights as long as I am able to source one myself that meets the laid down criteria, this FIA sticker thing just smacks of profittering and I would question in todays free market society if it was even legal.

[brickkicker]

Guess he is trying to get shot of them before they are of no use to him, although they are nothing like the ones used on Formula Renaults, the ones on formula renault I would suspect are a lot more than £45 as they are connected to some system that makes them flash when the safety car comes out and they look like this

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

See this is the thing I dont really have a problem fitting one of these lights as long as I am able to source one myself that meets the laid down criteria, this FIA sticker thing just smacks of profittering and I would question in todays free market society if it was even legal.

I guess the same could be said for helmets, you have to have one with the right sticker on or you cant use it, but im sure 99% of people wouldnt even look at one without the required approval stickers (such as the EU ones). And im sure when that rule came in it had a lot of opposition (and from some still does).

[Al Weyman]

Actually I dont think it is quite the same with helmets or belts this is an electronic device that either delivers and works or it does not and can be seen straight away at a glance if its up to the job not like belts or helmets I think this has gone a tad too far this time whats next what headlight bulbs we can use? I am seriously reconsidering whether I carry on in this sport to be honest, compulsory Hans was going to hail my swansong but as I have to spend a load to be out in 2008 I may just decide to walk now and just do trackdays for my kicks.

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by brickkicker

I guess the same could be said for helmets, you have to have one with the right sticker on or you cant use it, but im sure 99% of people wouldnt even look at one without the required approval stickers (such as the EU ones). And im sure when that rule came in it had a lot of opposition (and from some still does).

You couldn't say the same about helmets I'm afraid. There are catalogues full of them with the required stickers starting from those priced very reasonably considering the safety specifications and the design/manufacturing needed to meet them, right upto whatever you want to pay. Al's point is that there isn't any choice or price range for what is a very simple bulb unit that has been available in the vehicle aftermarket for years. They've chosen to mandate and endorse a very limited and overpriced number of them right at the time when everybody HAS to buy one. To put the price into context, I bought my entire extinguisher system including bottle, bracket, pipes, nozzles, pull cables and stickers for £85 inc.VAT last year. The same vendor was doing exactly this deal when they became mandatory.

Indeed there probably was some opposition to the helmet certification, but that's not a useful defence. If opposition fails in a prior case (rightly or wrongly) it doesn't therefore make it unreasonable to oppose later cases does it?

[brickkicker]

[QUOTE=Austinspace75]Al's point is that there isn't any choice or price range for what is a very simple bulb unit that has been available in the vehicle aftermarket for yearsQUOTE]

There is a choice, as there is a lot more than one on the market, and there is a price range as said on here they start from £45 and go up to well over £100, the main problem is that the cheap end is not as cheap as people think it should be but after all its only £45 and if enough people get together im sure that you could get a bulk order discount.

[Podd37]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

See this is the thing I dont really have a problem fitting one of these lights as long as I am able to source one myself that meets the laid down criteria, this FIA sticker thing just smacks of profittering and I would question in todays free market society if it was even legal.

Well said Al. Does this also mean that the FIA can legally set down criteria for safety issues that are outside and above what the EU specify? I have to agree with you on the Track Day issue too. My friends that have been doing Track Days for the past couple of years think I am mad as they can drive anything they want, for hours, on most of Europes best tracks for about half of what most of us spend on a 10 lap club event. And then drive the thing home in most cases. No grief from scrutes, no rumours about cheating, no nonsense about lights, just good fun. And before anyone thinks they are all just boy racers in Civic's, most of these are road legal race cars, and they wear proper helmets and overalls.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Podd37

Well said Al. Does this also mean that the FIA can legally set down criteria for safety issues that are outside and above what the EU specify?

Which EU specifications for motorsport are these.

Jim

[Al Weyman]

I think Pods point would be if they are OK for a rain soaked badly draining M25 in the rush hour during a downpour surely they would be OK on a race car but as i said i see no problem in fitting one i would just like to be able to source a light of the required intensity from where i want.

[brickkicker]

[QUOTE=Podd37]Well said Al. Does this also mean that the FIA can legally set down criteria for safety issues that are outside and above what the EU specify? QUOTE]
EU safety
They have there own EU stickers on helmets and they are no were near the standards that BS was and SNELL SFI still are. So I think they are justified in taking no notice of them.

[Lola]

[QUOTE=brickkicker]

Originally Posted by Austinspace75

Al's point is that there isn't any choice or price range for what is a very simple bulb unit that has been available in the vehicle aftermarket for yearsQUOTE]

There is a choice, as there is a lot more than one on the market, and there is a price range as said on here they start from £45 and go up to well over £100, the main problem is that the cheap end is not as cheap as people think it should be but after all its only £45 and if enough people get together im sure that you could get a bulk order discount.

Only £45!!!

When i can can buy exaactly the same product for £8. Is this legal? What happened to fair trade etc. One for the boys i think........what they going to do next....FIA toilet paper?

£45 is alot of money when you add up the number of £45 we are expected to shell out. Transponders (another rip off) Belts (i agree to being some sort of date) but costs are going up and up and up. This is (was) club motorsport. Where people race usually to a budget. One day the msa will find no one can afford it and they will all be out of jobs. The £8 Maplin (other than a resistor) is no different to the £45 version. A very expensive sticker!

[Farbrooke]

Are we sure it has to have a sticker or just 'approved by FIA' - in otherwords a model on the list? - The MSA add a sticker to your helmet - does not come with one

[JimW]

Can anyone point me to:

• The FIA standard to which lights are to be homologated
• A list of the lights which have been approved to that standard.

because a bit of trawling around the FIA website reveals standard and regulations for all sorts of things but I can't see anything about "rain lights".

Must be well hidden.

Regards

Jim

[Austinspace75]

Originally Posted by Farbrooke

Are we sure it has to have a sticker or just 'approved by FIA' - in otherwords a model on the list? - The MSA add a sticker to your helmet - does not come with one

Good question. You'd think that the MSA would like to make things like this VERY clear wouldn't you?... considering the number of competitors affected by it.

[brickkicker]

Jim, the website address is http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ain_Lights.pdf
(I couldnt find it either but Dtype posted it earlier on)
As far as I can tell there will be no stickers on any of the lights, so it might be hard to tell the difference.

[JimW]

Thanks. Now for the standard anyone?

Jim

[johnw]

I'll email Max immediately Jim, he's sure to know

[johnw]

[QUOTE=Lola]

Originally Posted by brickkicker

.......what they going to do next....FIA toilet paper?

Where's Al Weyman? He can get printing done.
There's some money to be made here Al