Mont Tremblant thread

[Chevyguy]

Alright, jhansen, you have flatout accused France of bribing Ganassi into their series. I think the one shelling the most money out to Ganassi for GA is CompUSA. You have alot of emotions about the DP class, but turning the channel does you no good. Think about it.

If the performance of the DPs makes people say they are not "top level" prototypes, I look forward to seeing Mid-Ohio's times for Both the DP and LMP2 class. If the DPs are faster than the LMP2s, then how are you guys going to explain why they are at Le Mans? Look forward to that arguement later.

Tim, what does NIMBY stand for? If one of them were to see what a race can do for a certain French town, maybe that will show 'em what racing can do for a community.

More importantly, who noticed the lack of Speedsource Multimatics this race? While the GA announce team can get be a little hard to listen to, I did catch that Borkowski/Mears Jr. will be at the Glen in a Riley! I haven't been to their site yet, but right now I'm hoping there's two. This shows that Speedsource is serious about winning and they are getting what is clearly the best chassis to do it. They're not looking all that pretty in DP right now, I'm curious to see how a team that was branded second rate, so to speak, does in the best equipment.

Cautions happen. While GA might be a little itchy to throw 'em, they are certainly not trying to fix the races. These conspiracy theories are a little extreme sometimes.

Are far as breaking down this forum into groups, I think it's a good idea. Not because of the mudslinging, but because the catergory is so diverse. There's alot of differant series that fit in this forum.

[Mags]

Originally posted by jhansen
Quote from Mags: "Anyway, this series can't even begin to compete against the ALMS. I don't believe that is what it's for. And the more racing out there, the more fans. IMO."

Then shouldn't your website be promoting and covering the IRL? After all, more exposure to that series can only broaden the fan base. It afterall, has no resemblance to CART/OWRS and is a completely different product. However, some teams and drivers cross over, which must be good for all correct?

Do you really think there is a comparison? Tony George started the IRL to destroy CART. We don't cover it because we are a private sight and we can cover what we wish to. And we don't wish to cover the IRL. Grand Am isn't here to destroy the ALMS.. it's another type of racing.

[jhansen]

I don't have any emotions about Grand-Am, that's why I've turned the channel. I believe I stated my opinions well enough in my other posts. I'm not going to re-hash it all out. However, I'd be more interested to know if you're getting emotional about it. People don't like this series for a variety of reasons, but why does that bother you?

As far as my comment about Ginassi's involvement, just to be clear I used the term "perhaps." It's my guess and opinion, but it was certainly no accusation. It was used to make a point. Perhaps you should think about it.

[jhansen]

Mags: So the Frances, with their NASCAR kingdom, saw road racing as a huge untapped market that the ALMS couldn't possibly fullfill?

Or did they think, boy those prototype cars are rather expensive, I wonder if we could come up with something cheaper, but still looks, sounds, and acts like a prototype, but at a fraction of the cost. They would combine other classes, modeled after classic endurance racing. Seek a wide range of drivers, but hopefully raise some home grown American road racers. Attract teams that were not currently in, or could not afford top-flight prototype racing. It would be ultra-competitive. And, the crown jewel, they would build their series around one race, the 24 Hours of Daytona.

Yeah, you'r right, no comparison there at all.

[Fogelhund]

Frankly, I do agree that Grand-Am discussions should be in a seperate area. It is a series not for "Sportscar" fans, so why not have discussion on it in the "National" area?

Mags, this GrandAm/ALMS situation is alot like the IRL/CART situation in many capacities. I'm not going to get into here, as I'm tired of these arguments.

[Chevyguy]

jhansen, your last post is, sorry if I'm misinterpreting again, very sarcastic, but what you just said is healthy IMO. On the other side, so much wonderful machinery, but no one with the means. How could this not be the answer to the problems that plegue the sportscar world right now? I beleive only two things stop the ALMS from being asbolutely the only series; the majority of the population of the U.S., and more importantly, COST.

I beleive Ganassi IS running in GA for fun. On Windtunnel, he said that he wanted to because he really missed road racing.

Now, since you're trying to get to me, a question. Since you don't give a flip about the series, why even post on this thread? I wanted to talk about the race, which you didn't see, not about if you like DPs or not. Obviously, it is you who is bothered by it. When you see the thread is about GA, why do you not go to the next channel(thread)? I'll let you marinate on that.

Sorry to everyone, but one has to stick up for one's self.

[jhansen]

Marinate, I like that. Yeah, my last post was a little tongue-in-cheek. In the future I'll try to be more clear about what I feel is fact, and what is opinion. But I think my point and meaning were quite clear. I posted here because I saw something I wanted to comment on. You say I'm bothered by it, I say I'm concerned. I don't want the ALMS to suffer. You and others do not think there is a conflict, but I and others do. I wont post here if I get criticized for my opinions. My intention is to not criticize, but to invoke thought. If I have criticized then I appologize. In the future I may not post in a Grand-Am thread. But of course I will continue my quest to be informed. And finally, in all do respect, I'm not trying to get anyone. If my opinions get you riled up, maybe I'm invoking some thought. Which in my opinion is a good thing.

[Mags]

Originally posted by jhansen
Mags: So the Frances, with their NASCAR kingdom, saw road racing as a huge untapped market that the ALMS couldn't possibly fullfill?

YES! Because the ALMS is supposed to be about the PINNICLE of the Sports Car world... the ACO and Le Mans...heights that only manufacturers can obtain because it costs MILLIONS of dollars. Like the F1 of the Sports Car world. I do not want to get into a mud slinging match here. I'm just saying I do not believe that Grand Am is there to compete with the ALMS. That is ALL I am saying.

[Mags]

Originally posted by Chevyguy
I beleive Ganassi IS running in GA for fun. On Windtunnel, he said that he wanted to because he really missed road racing.

I have only ONE answer to THAT, and I should have said something when I was with him on Sunday... GET YOUR BEHIND BACK TO CART THEN!!!!!

[Patrick B]

The Fact Chip has made it to every GA race this year even on IRL or Nascar weekends shows he's doing the DP thing for fun.

Fogelhound... <snip>

Pat, what were you thinking?

[Mags]

Originally posted by Patrick B
The Fact Chip has made it to every GA race this year even on IRL or Nascar weekends shows he's doing the DP thing for fun.

Fogelhound... <snip>

Yes! It's a new type of racing to him. And he brought his whole IRL team up to Mont Tremblant to watch! Look, I'm no Chip lover. But hey, I give the guy credit that he came in, and in 4 races did what it took to win. He flew in Saturday and was at the track all 2 days, meeting fans, being there. Got to give the guy credit.

[Fogelhund]

Thanks for the polite comment Patrick. Your rudeness certainly doesn't do much for your credibility.

[Patrick B]

What did you expect? Don't tell me im not a "sportscar" fan just cause i happen to like the GA series...

[Cheyne]

The France family has been involved in sports car/road racing in the US for a very long time. They funded the founding of IMSA when the SCCA dropped the ball on professional racing back in 1971 and in 1998/1999 they were behind the USRRC and finally Grand-Am in 2000 to present when IMSA dropped the ball.

Personally I'm thankfull that GA has been created. I watch ALMS races, but it is sort of like watching a train wreck. My problem is that I remember when IMSA actually had so many cars that they needed to separate GTP, GTO and GTU on race weekends. Back when a team could build a car (GTO Olds Cutlass, that had been a TA Camaro) in their garage take it to Daytona (1991) put a unknown driver (Boris Said backed up by P.D. Cunningham, Lou Gigiotti, Roger Schramm and Mike Nolan) and out qualify the Roush Mustangs (Mark Martin, Wally Dallenbach, Robby Gordon) and only the factory back RX7's were ahead of them. The car ended up 7th in class. IMHO GA has picked up the ball that was dropped by IMSA I and IMSA II couldn't pick up due to it's rules makers.

Cheyne

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by Patrick B
What did you expect? Don't tell me im not a "sportscar" fan just cause i happen to like the GA series...

Hey Pat, I think he's referring to Roger E's infamous quote about not needing the existing sportscar fans.

['70 Mach 1]

Originally posted by Chevyguy

Tim, what does NIMBY stand for?

NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard. Sorry, I know I'm not Tim (well, not that Tim anyway) just figured I'd throw that out.

I find it interesting that to some people the two series are mutually exclusive. I personally like both GA & ALMS for what they are, so there's just that much more racing for me to watch and enjoy....

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

[Mags]

I don't understand it, either. BEFORE I watched a race, I put it down, too. Then I went to one. Ignorance is bliss. I love the series now. And the race at MT cemented that. I have not seen racing like that in years and years. And to hear drivers like Sascha Maassen and Lucas Luhr tell me that they love doing this series and driving these DP's, well, how can you dispute THOSE guys?

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by Patrick B
What did you expect? Don't tell me im not a "sportscar" fan just cause i happen to like the GA series...

I was quoting Roger Edmunson. He said his series is not catering to "Traditional Sportscar Fans".

[Patrick B]

Sounds like you had a good time Mags. Glad to hear that you gave GA a "chance".

On a related topic how much did it cost for your weekened trip to Quebec? Did you try Westjet?

Maybe next year...

[Mags]

Originally posted by Patrick B
Sounds like you had a good time Mags. Glad to hear that you gave GA a "chance".

On a related topic how much did it cost for your weekened trip to Quebec? Did you try Westjet?

Maybe next year...

WAY TOO MUCH!! You know I am media, right?? I flew Scare Canada. And I stayed in a condo, it was SO beautiful.

[billnchristy]

it took me being contacted by a crew chief last year and starting a real in depth pro and con conversation with him to really see the "light'

People involved in the series dont see the Frances as monsters...why should we?

When you see the DPs up close and realize they are still only waist high and not as ungainly...are they sportscars...yeah...when you hear them you are certain.

The resistance is resistance to change more than what the change is...its natural, if you dont want the change...cool, carry on, just dont beat on it!!

If you accept the change and find zen in it...cool too, lets talk...

If youre on the fence, go see for yourself and then decide, dont let TV decide for you on any decision!!

[Mags]

That is VERY true, billnchristy! The SOUND!!! That is what got me hooked to Champcars in the first place, and those beasts DO sound great! They also have a very destinctive braking/gear sound I have never heard before, too.

[Chevyguy]

jhansen, thanks for a mature resolution and the first chance I got to say "I'll let you marinate on that." I've been waiting for the right moment, ya know?

Thank you too, '70, I didn't think it was any official organization. Speaking of backyards, when will they get those DPs to Texas?

Mags, CART seems to be kind of fragile right now, no? That's alot of development work on the off season to prepare for a season that might not happen. But as far as GA goes, he saw an opportunity for someone of his clout to do well in a series that has alot of growth potential. His team is the class of the field, and nothing could be sweeter than that. I'm sure you know, but his IRL team did a little more than "watch" the race. Tell it like it is, man!

[Mags]

hey Chevyguy..I am VERY new to the world of Sports Car racing. So I don't know much...I make no bones about it. But I assure you they were working it!! And I appologise; the person I spoke about was a friend of mine that works at his IRL arm.. but she was indeed working the race. As was everyone he brought in.

[Bob Riebe]

---"The France family has been involved in sports car/road racing in the US for a very long time. They funded the founding of IMSA when the SCCA dropped the ball on professional racing back in 1971"---

Cheyne:
ONe point about the start of IMSA.

IMSA started when John Bishop, who was a driving power in making SCCA pro races flourish had a falling out with the other board members.
Bill France Sr. (whose personallity was totally different from his boy's, he had raced cars, the only seat his boys have sat in was the office chair daddy gave them) helped John Bishop, but John Bishop ran the show, not the Frances.

To show how different Sr's way was, instead of making "saftey" changes when the drivers thought the cars were too fast at Talledega, Sr. said "the gas pedal goes both ways"

Sr. and Bishop were car guys, who did not hesitate to implement faster is better.
A far cry from strangled and emasculted GARRA cars for "close competitions" sake.

As a marketing tool to show which make, makes the the best vehicle through competition, the GARRA system is pointless.

Crew chiefs hated mod-prod. cars, it was work to make one into a race car.
They, and I got this from talking to racers, were the ones who *****ed the loudest to get rid of the stock rules.
Even having to use a stock fire-wall and pick-up points is a world away from a generic tube frame where you can put it where you choose.

There used to be strong loyalty among many racers to certain makes.
Now it seems such loyalty is gone, with few exceptions. It is all about the dollar now.
Amateur, or payless racing, died the day the cars no longer represented anything. Few fans would pay to see an A thingy beat a B thingy.
Bishop started the IMSA in the haydays of make loyalty and comptition. (God bless people such as the late Carl Shafer who made a modified ex-Chapparal Camaro the fear of many factory Porsche drivers.(And curse Chevy for not have a strong enough tranny.)
The IMSA played Eruope against Detroit.
GARRA is hoping the fans are too dumb to know, or care, that what is happening on the track has no relation to how good the vehicles made in Detroit are.
Of course there are those who say, never proven, the IMCA sprint car races, in its hayday, were fixed; so maybe the series the France boys are copying does have an I,M and A in it, just no S.

As I said before though, if they would turn the engines loose, it would probably be worth a serious look-see.
Bob