Marshals Forum and MSA

[Stephen Green]

No, its the one with 6 inch nails bashed through it!

[Dan Friel]

To change tack just slightly.

I'm aware that there is a major recruitment campaign ongoing at the moment. However, there's obviously little point in recruiting if the perceived problems with marshalling remain. Following the recruitment drive is anything being aimed at those new marshals - or perhaps the general BMMC efforts should cover that? Would be interested to know everyones thoughts.

With regards to filling in the gaps with inexperiened race drivers / pit crew to make sure race meetings run, I don't think i can think of anything more dangerous.. however I'm aware that it's happened in the past.

Actually - should this be posted in the marshals forum?? Stephen?

[Stephen Green]

I'm not too sure what you are trying to say here Dan?

Yes there is an ongoing recruitment campaign but there is also a campaign to retain existing marshals. That can be done in many ways and has been discussed in many other threads so I won't go into specific details here.

The immediate target is to get our numbers up, regardless of whether they join the BMMC, BARC, BRSCC etc etc. We are trying hard to avoid the scenario depicted in Chris's presentation.

[Asp]

Just a thought, I know some people are saying that we could change the way we marshal, into a more continental or american style with more response vehicles and less people trackside. There are consequences in that as regards response times and race neutralisations, but as it works elsewhere changing of rules could make it work here.
The problem is though that it won't stop the issue we're needing to avoid of marshalling numbers dwindling. It might make the "crisis point" of too few marshals further away, but it won't stop it coming. Furthermore, when it does come, it will result on more meetings being cancelled: currently, if a meeting is a couple of marshals less than an adequate number, we can (and will) still get by, just be one marshal down at a couple of posts. If a meeting is running on minimal manning trackside and response vehicles, two marshals short could mean a vehicle being unmanned. And, in such a situation, I'm sure the meeting would have to be cancelled.

That's why the immediate target must be to get numbers up and more people learning the delights of becoming a marshal!

[Stephen Green]

And who pays for the rapid response vehicles, the circuit owners? There's another reason why it wont happen in the near term.

[Eddy V]

Many options here Stephen. Zolder owns their own cars (cheap rate from Ford), Spa managed (so they told us) the get the cars for free from whatever manufacturer they use now.

Good things: no need to run half a mile to a car, parked in a silly spot; quick extra bottles if needed; no or lesser need for red flags, as they can tow a car to safety.
Bad things: the marshals become "lazy" after some years, why should we run if we have those cars?; cars too often used for every little problem marshals could deal with; a "us-and-them" attitude between marshals and intervention car people (why are they allowed to sit in the dry/ shadow/ cool place.....).

The cars are not bad, it is something to get used to, as well for drivers as for the marshals.

[Dan Friel]

I didn’t explain that very well. I’m worried that the recruitment campaign could possibly be counter productive if the inherent (or perceived) problems with marshalling aren’t resolved in advance.

Do we really want to encourage people to start such a hobby when those involved already are having to tackle current problems and are seemingly leaving in droves? How many of those new marshals will stick at it, and what will their perception of marshalling actually be after a couple of seasons? I hope this has been thought through.

Also what should the ratio of trainees compared with experienced marshals actually be? I would have thought that this needs to be carefully controlled. Very difficult one, but presumably the numbers of new marshals / trainees aren’t considered when manning a circuit.

However that being said, we do need to recruit and I’ll interested to see what the new incentives to bring in new marshals actually are and how the BMMC etc are promoting this.

[Stephen Green]

I think I am right in saying that last year was the first year in ages that marshals numbers stabilised. That is due in part to the work being done by lots of clubs in recruiting new marshals. I also believe that our numbers have been assisted by some of the university courses in motorsport now being run, where participants are encouraged to take up marshalling as a hobby.

However, this trend will only continue if we continue to advertise ourselves ansd keep up the high profile recruiting.

[midgetman]

I'm not sure making drivers marshal is a good idea. I have to marshal one cycle race per season to keep points in my club TT champs. It's the worst hour of my cycling life, & I'm about as much good as a chocolate fire guard. I spent 10 years being paid huge sums to marshal a commercial kart track, and I never, ever want to do it again especially for free.

All this does NOT mean that I don't have e-n-o-r-m-o-u-s respect for those that do it and enjoy it; in fact quite the contrary. It's just that I KNOW I'd be a liability at a cold wet race track & the "pros" don't need that.

Personally I'd prefer to pay some kind of levy to keep marshals motivated or professional teams, don't know how it would work or even how it would be distributed that's for others cleverer than I to decide. I'd grumble at another cost of course - it's what we English do - but as a percentage of say a HANS device or the car itself I bet a tiny amount could make a huge difference. As long as I was guaranteed it was going to marshals and not just into the circuit coffers.

OK Dave Brand, even I can't defend my last cr*p idea and this is probably another cr*p idea in a whole list of cr*p ideas but at least I'm having some ideas in the first place. "Omnia expirire, bona contine" as my old school motto said! Or to put it into Max-ish - you've got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince(ss).

[b1ackcr0w]

Okay, there has been a lot of debate here, mostly us Marshals warning about dark clouds and bad things ahead. We've also had drivers shrugging their shoulders and asking "what's the fuss about"? Isn't it our choice if we race without safety workers?

Well, no. Quite simply, we are living in times where the government is happy to take control over any aspect of our lives. Anything they can't control they fear, and anything they fear they are quite willing to legislate against. So if you enjoy motorsports, then defending it by ensuring it's safety is in your interest.

There are two ways of acheiving this. Luckily in mainland UK, we still have enough willing volunteers to enable this to happen. However, there is an alternative. I'm going to post up a link to the Jersey Motorcycle and Light Car Club. Through no fault of their own, they just haven't got enough Volunteer's and they have to run the alternative. My intention here is not to paint Jersey as in any way bad, this is just the circumstance they have to deal with. But take a look at how they've had to start restricting entries to competitors that don't directly contribute towards marshalling.

I just can't imagine that's where competitors want to be in preference to the current situation. But unless competitors get on board and lend their support to the MSA and BMMC to avert the crisis that is only just around the corner, that's exactly where we'll be, and sooner than many think.

http://www.jerseymotorsport.com/

[Stephen Green]

Briefly going back to the first paragraph of Midgetmans reply, I think we all agree that forcing drivers to marshal is a no go area, and not something we as marshals are suggesting.

My personal view is that there should be sufficient funding within the MSA to promote marshalling in a more forcefull and professional manner. We will have to wait and see what the new initiative Volunteers in Motorsport come up with.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

. . . . My intention here is not to paint Jersey as in any way bad, this is just the circumstance they have to deal with. But take a look at how they've had to start restricting entries to competitors that don't directly contribute towards marshalling.

I just can't imagine that's where competitors want to be in preference to the current situation. But unless competitors get on board and lend their support to the MSA and BMMC to avert the crisis that is only just around the corner, that's exactly where we'll be, and sooner than many think.

http://www.jerseymotorsport.com/

Hmm. Must make a note to re-visit this in a year's time to see what has happened.

In the meantime, how about setting up a market in points. Soon see what the value of a "marshal day" is to a top-flight competitor who does not find it convenient to be out themselves.

Regards

Jim

[b1ackcr0w]

Originally Posted by JimW

Hmm. Must make a note to re-visit this in a year's time to see what has happened.

Jim,

Ironically, I really do hope I'm completely wrong about this.

[JimW]

Of course and so do I. I have done a few events on Jersey and envy their situation.

Regards

Jim