Audi LMP1 Discussion

[TzeiTzei]

They look a bit like amateurs right now.

[Spyderman]

Audi will get it together. They always do. They had a poor session, but there are another two sessions to go. They had good performance in the first two races of the season and on Test day, so yesterday was not really representative.

[J Jay]

Besides the reliability problems, it does seem like the engineers are struggling to get a handle on the setup of the LM-spec car. The ('09) R15 comes to my mind as another car with "trick" aero that Audi never really were comfortable with.

[sssssssss]

i'm sorry to say this, but at the moment they simply look like all the technological subtlety and innovation they put into this car (a la "vorsprung durch technik") is simply over their heads. the car seems too complex to manage. i'm totally surprised they didn't get some decent control over this car after so much testing and racing and that they really came to le mans virtually unprepared, after losing it in big fashion last year too. i just can't understand their approach.

[Spyderman]

Qualifying is far from over.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Qualifying is far from over.

Unless the current weather sticks around. It's a deluge apparently.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Qualifying is far from over.

But "it always rains at Le Mans...". While the sun is shining through the clouds at the moment, heavy rain is announced for this afternoon and this evening. I doubt that we will have a chance to see any improvement today.

Now, the race is going to be wet as well, so the result is even more unpredictable.

Could well be that Rebellion Racing will clinch this one

[chernaudi]

Audi better get on top of whatever their problems were yesterday, or it could be a long 24 hours for them. They need to get the form they had at Silverstone back.

[sssssssss]

at night, after 11 o'clock, it's possible that it won't rain anymore, but if the track is very wet, it don't think there's enough time for it to dry out until the end of the session. i think the starting grid will stay the way it is now, porsche-porsche, toyota-toyota, audi-audi, rebellion-rebellion. that should be the least of a problem that audi have, though. in perpetual rain, it's less likely they will be able to setup the car properly, which is one of their main concerns. not to mention reliability, which might already be too late to think about, at this stage.

[chernaudi]

If it rains today, that'll only help Audi if it rains during the race, which right now rain is possible in the first half.

Unless they win or at least get a good finish, I'm sort of seeing LM as a write off, and Audi should be better once we get to the higher downforce tracks that, as Silverstone seemed to prove, suits their car better.

[sssssssss]

i don't think HD tracks suit audi's 2016 car too well, this car really seems to have been designed with le mans in mind, as far as i can tell. it' a very fast car down the straights and it doesn't carry nearly as much downforce as the 2015 one did even in le mans config (remember that incredible sector 2 at spa that last year's car did, which was faster than anything else, including its HD counterpart). if it doesn't perform well at le mans, i highly doubt it will perform better anywhere else. and besides that... who really cares, once you lose le mans in big fashion again?

i don't expect anything spectacular from audi today. i do expect them to be fast in the race though, but winning seems very far fetched with the troubled car this seems to be.

[chernaudi]

If Audi can run 3:22s in race trim and have good long run pace like at the test day, that'll be their only saving grace right now.

I just don't understand why they're having so much trouble replicating their test day performance on the same track and in similar conditions.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

i don't think HD tracks suit audi's 2016 car too well, this car really seems to have been designed with le mans in mind, as far as i can tell. it' a very fast car down the straights and it doesn't carry nearly as much downforce as the 2015 one did even in le mans config (remember that incredible sector 2 at spa that last year's car did, which was faster than anything else, including its HD counterpart)

The 2015 Spa LD trim was slightly different from the Le Mans LD trim. At Le Mans Audi did some spectacularly fast laps and if I recall correctly, all three Audis recorded fastest laps. But it was not a sustainable pace for some reason.

And I still think that one main reason to have a high-nose design like Audi's is to create low-drag downforce, not just low drag.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Unless they win or at least get a good finish, I'm sort of seeing LM as a write off, and Audi should be better once we get to the higher downforce tracks that, as Silverstone seemed to prove, suits their car better.

It seems you can never know with Audi these days. I still don't understand last year's very non-Audi mistake with choosing the wrong aero package for the post-LM races.

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If Audi can run 3:22s in race trim and have good long run pace like at the test day, that'll be their only saving grace right now.

I just don't understand why they're having so much trouble replicating their test day performance on the same track and in similar conditions.

it's a mystery to me too. maybe the drivers aren't quite finding the right line either, if they have been specifically told to avoid all the kerbs, because of the car being so fragile? but they were already complaining about aero imbalance before the kerb incident. i think there's a whole lot of pace in the car, once the right setup is found, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it would be faster than porsche again. unfortunately the car seems too inconsistent and too fragile to allow them to get a proper setup.

Originally Posted by bobec

At Le Mans Audi did some spectacularly fast laps and if I recall correctly, all three Audis recorded fastest laps. But it was not a sustainable pace for some reason.

And I still think that one main reason to have a high-nose design like Audi's is to create low-drag downforce, not just low drag.

they had spectacular pace almost throughout the race last year, they were consistently .5s per lap faster than porsche, except for the night stints. the porsches just had a much more clean, consistent, trouble-free race than audi. i don't feel they won by speed against audi in 2015. but the 2015 audi was much more predictable and well balanced than this year's car, apparently. and it allowed much more of a forceful driving style, because.. well, it didn't break down as soon as you climbed the kerbs. however, it was still not reliable enough to beat porsche. so i see no way this year's car will have any chance in doing that, with porsche again in great shape.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

they had spectacular pace almost throughout the race last year, they were consistently .5s per lap faster than porsche, except for the night stints. the porsches just had a much more clean, consistent, trouble-free race than audi. i don't feel they won by speed against audi in 2015. but the 2015 audi was much more predictable and well balanced than this year's car, apparently. and it allowed much more of a forceful driving style, because.. well, it didn't break down as soon as you climbed the kerbs. however, it was still not reliable enough to beat porsche. so i see no way this year's car will have any chance in doing that, with porsche again in great shape.

Yes, also Porsche's longer stints and faster refueling. I've been wondering if Audi should have had a more evolutionary approach for this year, heavily revising the 2015 car instead of this brand new design. The 2016 car looks extreme, but not also its performance so far.

[Mitchi_S]

Anyone wondering why Audi choose Oliver Jarvis (...) instead of Rene Rast? Appears to me that he's pretty much one of, if not the front runner in P2.

Seems weird to me, I do not understand this.

[Creep89]

Audi had no choice, because they had to go up to 6mj. And replacing the flywheel with a battery solution isn't so easy, because you need to find space for the battery and other technical components.

Edit: Yes, for me Jarvis is the weakest driver. Guess Audi didn't want to put the team apart after their first season.

[Mitchi_S]

I guess so; though I think even though it would be a new constellation, they would have a much stronger trio in that car.

[Creep89]

No doubt about this.

[chernaudi]

#8 Audi team needed stability after McNish and Kristensen retired in back to back seasons, lost their race engineer, and after H semi-retired from racing.

You can also make the same argument about Fassler in the #7 Audi, but though Fassler and Jarvis are less flashy than their teammates, Audi Sport keeps them in the driving squads. But the same can be said for each of the Porsche and Toyota driving teams, too.

[sssssssss]

no top speed either on the current setup of the car, i noticed this in the qualifying session yesterday too. they were doing 336 km/h before indianapolis in practice, but in qualifying they were 10 km/h down. and now again i've seen 326 km/h before indianapolis.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

i don't think HD tracks suit audi's 2016 car too well, this car really seems to have been designed with le mans in mind, as far as i can tell. it' a very fast car down the straights and it doesn't carry nearly as much downforce as the 2015 one did even in le mans config (remember that incredible sector 2 at spa that last year's car did, which was faster than anything else, including its HD counterpart). if it doesn't perform well at le mans, i highly doubt it will perform better anywhere else. and besides that... who really cares, once you lose le mans in big fashion again?

Audi's 2016 HD car have lot's of downforce(more than last year's car and any rival), though, and that's what chernaudi was talking about.

Maybe rain won't be bad for Audi as they trashed the field during Silverstone QLF, but that might have been due to their higher downforce on the other aero config

Well, again Audi starting behind but I still think they'll be on pace, come the race, though reliability might turn out to be a joke

[chernaudi]

Audi very well may be owl food at this stage. Unless they get on top of what their issues is, they might as well say hi to Mr. Tyto.

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by Artur

Audi's 2016 HD car have lot's of downforce(more than last year's car and any rival), though, and that's what chernaudi was talking about.

Maybe rain won't be bad for Audi as they trashed the field during Silverstone QLF, but that might have been due to their higher downforce on the other aero config

Well, again Audi starting behind but I still think they'll be on pace, come the race, though reliability might turn out to be a joke

i remember audi (dr. ullrich, i think) saying silverstone isn't too well suited for their 2016 car, unlike previous years.

i too expect them to be somewhat better in the race, if they manage to get some time on track to work on the cars more. if they constantly stay in the garage - and this weather is not helping matters at all - i think they'll live a spa replay, pace-wise. but very unlikely, reliability-wise as well.