USCC (leave your axe outside)

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by freeballin

I'm sure the France family is rethinking everything now.

You still posting at CW predicting the imminent demise of IndyCar?

Why yes i am, thanks for asking.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Let me get that for you:

Looks like HORNDAWG left.

I guess he is incapable of communicating without the ROFL icon.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Looks like HORNDAWG left.

I guess he is incapable of communicating without the ROFL icon.

Hmmm...

[schmidder]

Almost afraid to post, this forum is so much bigger than my old americanlemansfans forum.....

Had an email exchange this week with the ticketing manager at Laguna Seca about how priority for camping sites at Laguna Seca would be handled if USCR visits there in 2014 (would ALMS or GrandAm campers get first right of refusal, etc). This was after several responses of 'we aren't sure' in the past because I am assuming it is going to be hard on them since the ALMS camping has been closer to capacity than Grand Am. She indicated that priority would 'probably' be given to Grand Am campers, which makes sense given what the 'merger' really was....heck, I'm not sure how many ALMS fans will really want to go anyhow, I know most of the alms forum folks I spoke to this year are gonna pass for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, I snatched a couple of corkscrew view spots (kind of like personal seating licenses I suppose) for this year's race so I have first right of refusal next year if it goes down like they are thinking.

Just thought I would share.

ps. trying to keep my alms passion alive for the rest of the season, but the finish at Laguna this year is making it really hard to care...sucks.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by schmidder

Almost afraid to post, this forum is so much bigger than my old americanlemansfans forum.....

Stay in the "sports car and GT racing" forum, and you won't get lost.
You'll get used to the new format quickly.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by 962

But they are not mutually exclusive either, you say GA is not a success but yet it survives, while the ALMS which was hugely successfull does not. And I would say that while apparently ALMS is a prime example of popularity not equaling success why was it that ALMS was unable to take their obviously overwhelming popularity and produce a successfull series.

I'm currious why exactly do people think if GA was such a failure did NASCAR keep it. Last time I checked they are not in the buisness of keeping anything that is not making money.

GA Rolex survived through subsidizing a majority of the DP grid. The ALMS didn't fail, they chose to sell to NASCAR.

You are correct, the ALMS was unable to take their at track popularity, and turn it into the success most thought it should be. Through management errors, or just inability, they couldn't make it work.

Grand AM makes money, but we don't know how that income is earned. I suspect the profit mostly comes from Conti and the other support series, which have been wildly successful, but they need a headliner in the Rolex. In purchasing the ALMS, I would guess they are hoping they'll keep the larger fanbase that the ALMS had. Based on what has been said so far, I doubt they will.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

As Andy Blackmore said on Facebook, maybe filling this out will have a small impact on the future of the USCR:
http://www.grand-am.com/News/GA_News...cid=6383&sid=1

I hope everyone listed ten-tenths as one of the sites they frequently visit for sportscar news!

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by joeb

I hope everyone listed ten-tenths as one of the sites they frequently visit for sportscar news!

I certainly did, no need to visit other news sites anymore

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by joeb

I hope everyone listed ten-tenths as one of the sites they frequently visit for sportscar news!

Originally Posted by aneesh99

I certainly did, no need to visit other news sites anymore

Me too.

[Catingaround]

Originally Posted by joeb

I hope everyone listed ten-tenths as one of the sites they frequently visit for sportscar news!

Originally Posted by aneesh99

I certainly did, no need to visit other news sites anymore

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Me too.

Same, and with the ALMS version of the survey as well

[joeb]

Thanks everyone! I did find the first part of the survey kind of funny in asking what could make you want to visit the GA site more. Don't they really mean what do you want to see on the uscr site?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Looks like HORNDAWG left.

I guess he is incapable of communicating without the ROFL icon.

you through with the little self serving circle jerk? Sorry I was not at your beck and call, NOT!
NASCAR was born and raised on the dirt and then short tracks of rural America. Hell you couldn't even spit without hitting a NASCAR sanctioned track, there were 5 within 70 miles of home, now you have to go 250 miles to get to a track that NASCAR visits. They had a monopoly and walked away from it in dirt track stock car racing. So no they do not wish to control ALL of racing.









L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by joeb

Thanks everyone! I did find the first part of the survey kind of funny in asking what could make you want to visit the GA site more. Don't they really mean what do you want to see on the uscr site?

Yeah, basically I alluded to that also in my response to the survey. They need to concentrate on getting the USCR site fully up and running with all the kinks ironed out. Ten-Tenths was at the top of the list.







L.P.

[Canada ALMS fan]

How slow and lame will next year be? No P1 and look how much the P2 will neutered. Starworks are testing a DP at Sebring as per Ryan Dalziel's Twitter feed. On similar track conditions here are his quotes:

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
As promised some @starworksmotor DP vs P2 Sebring full course comparisons coming your way. Using a 1.51.8 P2 (practice lap) and 1.56.9 DP.

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
Comps from Mid corner min speeds
T1 - DP 9mph slower
T3 - DP 3mph slower
T5 - DP 6mph slower
Hairpin - DP 4mph slower
T10 - DP 6mph slower

Tower - DP 8mph slower
T15 - DP 14mph slower (very fast in P2 car 100+mph)
T16 - DP 7mph slower
T17 - DP 7mph slower (DP better over bumps)

Sum interestin stuff
DP almost match P2 brakin for T3 & Hairpin but is about 250ft earlier for T17
Biggest loss is T15 (2nd fastest corner)

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How slow and lame will next year be? No P1 and look how much the P2 will neutered. Starworks are testing a DP at Sebring as per Ryan Dalziel's Twitter feed. On similar track conditions here are his quotes:

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
As promised some @starworksmotor DP vs P2 Sebring full course comparisons coming your way. Using a 1.51.8 P2 (practice lap) and 1.56.9 DP.

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
Comps from Mid corner min speeds
T1 - DP 9mph slower
T3 - DP 3mph slower
T5 - DP 6mph slower
Hairpin - DP 4mph slower
T10 - DP 6mph slower

Tower - DP 8mph slower
T15 - DP 14mph slower (very fast in P2 car 100+mph)
T16 - DP 7mph slower
T17 - DP 7mph slower (DP better over bumps)

Sum interestin stuff
DP almost match P2 brakin for T3 & Hairpin but is about 250ft earlier for T17
Biggest loss is T15 (2nd fastest corner)

Lord above things are looking bleak. IMO LMP2 cars are too slow to be the top class as is but if they are as slow as the DP's that is ridiculous. LMP2 cars will have to have a HUGE weight and power penalty to get down to a DP laptime, that or someone will have to get very imaginative with the DP's to bring them up to speed. How long will the test last for at Sebring?

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

Lord above things are looking bleak. IMO LMP2 cars are too slow to be the top class as is but if they are as slow as the DP's that is ridiculous. LMP2 cars will have to have a HUGE weight and power penalty to get down to a DP laptime, that or someone will have to get very imaginative with the DP's to bring them up to speed. How long will the test last for at Sebring?

No way they will cut power on the P2 engines. I think they will force them to run the low downforce Le Mans aero at all the tracks to cut cornering speeds. Plus this makes them more authentic Le Mans cars. Win/win.
If they can't speed the DP's up enough with improved aero, ballast removal, and a slight opening of engine restrictors, I think they will add ballast weight to the P2's as a last resort.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How slow and lame will next year be? No P1 and look how much the P2 will neutered. Starworks are testing a DP at Sebring as per Ryan Dalziel's Twitter feed. On similar track conditions here are his quotes:

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
As promised some @starworksmotor DP vs P2 Sebring full course comparisons coming your way. Using a 1.51.8 P2 (practice lap) and 1.56.9 DP.

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
Comps from Mid corner min speeds
T1 - DP 9mph slower
T3 - DP 3mph slower
T5 - DP 6mph slower
Hairpin - DP 4mph slower
T10 - DP 6mph slower

Tower - DP 8mph slower
T15 - DP 14mph slower (very fast in P2 car 100+mph)
T16 - DP 7mph slower
T17 - DP 7mph slower (DP better over bumps)

Sum interestin stuff
DP almost match P2 brakin for T3 & Hairpin but is about 250ft earlier for T17
Biggest loss is T15 (2nd fastest corner)

He also said the P2 was 5mph faster on the backstraight which was surprising after the Conquest P2 tested at Daytona and was reported to be slower than the DP's on the front and backstretch at Daytona.
But he also said the car is set up for high downforce since this is a test for the race in Detroit, and if they were testing FOR Sebring they would run less and aero and he estimated a 1:54 or 1:55 lap time.

[Canada ALMS fan]

But P2 are already too slow to be a top class even with no adjustments and any reductions will back them up into or behind PC and GTLM. Since they're stuck with this mess they should have just merged PC into the P2/DP class but I assume they wanted to maintain a pro-am class. This just keeps getting worse. I am definitely not going to any races for the foreseeable future unless they run with the WEC at Austin again next year. Many others seem to feel the same. They can do all the surveys they want but they are stuck with a losing formula for the next 2 year at least. So frustrating.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

But P2 are already too slow to be a top class even with no adjustments and any reductions will back them up into or behind PC and GTLM. Since they're stuck with this mess they should have just merged PC into the P2/DP class but I assume they wanted to maintain a pro-am class. This just keeps getting worse. I am definitely not going to any races for the foreseeable future unless they run with the WEC at Austin again next year. Many others seem to feel the same. They can do all the surveys they want but they are stuck with a losing formula for the next 2 year at least. So frustrating.

Too right, as I've said before, you only need to take a look at some of the tracks in the WEC schedule or ALMS to see that the net result of the slower P2's is that everyone goes barrelling into a corner at the same time and that P2's have a real struggle trying to out drag PC and GTE cars. Given that GTE is a mainstay for USCR and that the grids are going to be big, slowing them up is making a big problem bigger.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

you through with the little self serving circle jerk? Sorry I was not at your beck and call, NOT!

There is no reason to get angry, bro. We can have a civil discussion.

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

NASCAR was born and raised on the dirt and then short tracks of rural America. Hell you couldn't even spit without hitting a NASCAR sanctioned track, there were 5 within 70 miles of home, now you have to go 250 miles to get to a track that NASCAR visits. They had a monopoly and walked away from it in dirt track stock car racing. So no they do not wish to control ALL of racing.

L.P.

NASCAR sanctioned does not mean that NASCAR owns the track. Bowman Grey is a NASCAR sanctioned track and NASCAR nor ISC owns it.

If NASCAR doesn't want a monopoly, why did NASCAR buy 10 tracks in a 10-year period? Why did they try to also buy Kentucky, Loudon, and try to get the owners to sell Pocono?

Why will ISC (and SMI for that matter) only move CUP dates between tracks in their own entities?

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How slow and lame will next year be? No P1 and look how much the P2 will neutered. Starworks are testing a DP at Sebring as per Ryan Dalziel's Twitter feed. On similar track conditions here are his quotes:

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
As promised some @starworksmotor DP vs P2 Sebring full course comparisons coming your way. Using a 1.51.8 P2 (practice lap) and 1.56.9 DP.

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
Comps from Mid corner min speeds
T1 - DP 9mph slower
T3 - DP 3mph slower
T5 - DP 6mph slower
Hairpin - DP 4mph slower
T10 - DP 6mph slower

Tower - DP 8mph slower
T15 - DP 14mph slower (very fast in P2 car 100+mph)
T16 - DP 7mph slower
T17 - DP 7mph slower (DP better over bumps)

Sum interestin stuff
DP almost match P2 brakin for T3 & Hairpin but is about 250ft earlier for T17
Biggest loss is T15 (2nd fastest corner)

Johnny O'Connel took the GT1 pole in 2008 at 1:56.269.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Because they want a monopoly on US auto racing.

NASCAR
Motorcycles
Sports Cars

Now they will go after Indy Cars, drag racing, and then the dirt tracks.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

There is no reason to get angry, bro. We can have a civil discussion.

NASCAR sanctioned does not mean that NASCAR owns the track. Bowman Grey is a NASCAR sanctioned track and NASCAR nor ISC owns it.

If NASCAR doesn't want a monopoly, why did NASCAR buy 10 tracks in a 10-year period? Why did they try to also buy Kentucky, Loudon, and try to get the owners to sell Pocono?

Why will ISC (and SMI for that matter) only move CUP dates between tracks in their own entities?

I'm not angry.
Are you really trying to suggest that your tone was civil?

This dog don't hunt! First post says they want a monopoly on racing, then this latest states tracks. They are two different animals!






L.P.

[awegrzyn]

You are correct, the ALMS was unable to take their at track popularity, and turn it into the success most thought it should be. Through management errors, or just inability, they couldn't make it work.

I disagree with the above. ALMS was as successful as it could be, and I think there were no more people in the US of A that would watch sports cars. That I think is a fact most people fail to observe.

Sure there were few things here and there that would make ALMS money, but my feeling is there will not be any sports car series in the future attracting so many fans.

[Purist]

With a pool of 340 million people (US and Canada), and there aren't any more potential Sportscar fans than we've already seen?! That's BULL! And it would be more like 460 million if you could tap in to Mexico.

The series NEEDS to be marketed effectively, and be perfectly willing to bring on board brand names with a following, regardless of whether they're high-end and/or automotive-related companies.

I have no doubt more people would watch if they knew it existed, could find it fairly easily, and could readily watch it live and otherwise. Covering the first gets you a LONG way toward accomplishing the second and third items.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

How slow and lame will next year be? No P1 and look how much the P2 will neutered. Starworks are testing a DP at Sebring as per Ryan Dalziel's Twitter feed. On similar track conditions here are his quotes:

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
As promised some @starworksmotor DP vs P2 Sebring full course comparisons coming your way. Using a 1.51.8 P2 (practice lap) and 1.56.9 DP.

Ryan Dalziel ‏@ryan_dalziel
Comps from Mid corner min speeds
T1 - DP 9mph slower
T3 - DP 3mph slower
T5 - DP 6mph slower
Hairpin - DP 4mph slower
T10 - DP 6mph slower

Tower - DP 8mph slower
T15 - DP 14mph slower (very fast in P2 car 100+mph)
T16 - DP 7mph slower
T17 - DP 7mph slower (DP better over bumps)

Sum interestin stuff
DP almost match P2 brakin for T3 & Hairpin but is about 250ft earlier for T17
Biggest loss is T15 (2nd fastest corner)

You've been (deliberately?) leaving out some of Dalziel's tweets on the subject, though. Let me add them for you:

@mike_hedlund you'd think so but not. We were running full/max DP aero for Detroit so top speed was slow. Was actually between 1-2mph slower

but like i said we were running more aero than we should have for Detroit testing. Realistically id say our corner speeds....

....should have been slower than they were and straightline faster than we were if we were trying to tune for Sebring only.

So with the long straights at Sebring their overall deficit would probably have been less with a full Sebring setup.