BRDC british f3 2016 (was brdc f4)

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by jobdone

Was at the show yesterday, saw the F4 car on the MSV stand. The pictures don't do it any justice at all - it looks very impressive and a serious racing car - far more grown up than the winged FFord and unbelievable for the price.

I hear a number of teams are pulling out due to not being able to fill drives? This might change now the cars are out but a lot of work to be done I would think

[Redracer77]

JP but be offsetting the costs on the cars as they are a lot of car for the money. How much is an F3 spec gearbox and the Cosworth datalogger must be worth £3-£5k?

I hope it works.

[DiamondJim]

Having seen the car in the flesh at the show on Friday I can well believe JP's subsidising it. Looked a lot more than £30ks worth to me. That really is cheap - not surprised they all got sold at that price. I agree with jobdone that the photos don't do it justice - it's a good looking car and there was definitely a buzz about it up there. I'm pretty convinced F4 will work and be successful.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by DiamondJim

Having seen the car in the flesh at the show on Friday I can well believe JP's subsidising it. Looked a lot more than £30ks worth to me. That really is cheap - not surprised they all got sold at that price. I agree with jobdone that the photos don't do it justice - it's a good looking car and there was definitely a buzz about it up there. I'm pretty convinced F4 will work and be successful.

I think F4 will be successful too but the thought of a prudent businessman like JP "offsetting the cost" i.e. subsidising a formula when they have had to increase the production run due to demand intrigues me.

Why on earth would he do that? Why would he increase his subsidy (loss on the balance sheet)? What's in it for him?

I don't think the car is "cheap" per se, more that other cars are probably just too expensive and RF has been able to use economies of scale to keep the costs under control.

I may be wrong, but I'd love to know why.

[bella]

is it not a no brainer to run it at a loss - if that's what's happening here? is it not an extended advertising and goodwill platform for the other related businesses? it's the same thing as a car manufacturer doing a sporty version of a model of car, surely?

the interesting thing about msv doing this kind of thing is that should it not be a success, there's another company under the same umbrella to absorb the cars into. a basic simple single seater that looks impressive but doesn't have much power with low maintenance and parts costs? ideal for say, a driving school or a corporate experience business, isn't it?

i wonder whether the car will be sold on as a complete product to those kinds of businesses around the world. as such, a racing series promoting it, and giving potential customers (and customers of the customers) a full picture of what they're buying into isn't such a daft idea.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Well, all I can say is it's a brave man (with a very understanding bank) that is prepared to run a business at a loss in the current circumstances.

I hope F4 succeeds for a variety of reasons and if you are right then JP may well be quids in. I'll still await confirmation of this "subsidy" though......

[JNWRF01]

Unless I am very much mistaken.... MSV would have put out to tender the right to supply the new cars and I am sure all the junior manufacturers would have submitted quotes. MSV would then add their margin to those quotes and then off you go. Whether RFR make any money out of the cars or just break even - I would have thought most manufacters would have been chasing the spares contract for 26 cars driven by young lads and lasses who will no doubt have the odd shunt or ten. The margin is in the spares and not the new cars

[PrestonNorthEnd]

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

Unless I am very much mistaken.... MSV would have put out to tender the right to supply the new cars and I am sure all the junior manufacturers would have submitted quotes. MSV would then add their margin to those quotes and then off you go. Whether RFR make any money out of the cars or just break even - I would have thought most manufacters would have been chasing the spares contract for 26 cars driven by young lads and lasses who will no doubt have the odd shunt or ten. The margin is in the spares and not the new cars

Spot on. I do not think there was much development cost either. Looked like a Formula Ireland to me with a Sadev box on the back. Nothing wrong in that.

[Banger racer]

F4 car seems to have gone down well with the teams…http://www.formula4.com/news/f4-team...4-013-car.aspx

[brakedisc]

I posted earlier that I thought that JP had pitched F4 at the wrong level. It is interesting to see in a recent MN article that they did consider a cheap option but deided that it was not what the customer or more to the point what the teams wanted. This is the same with the new FF200. Everyone wants these fancy cars with all the bells and whistles but the sad fact is that the majority of people do not have the money to rush out and buy them. It is also interesting that D Warwick has spoken out against the MSA (Autosport show, Motors TV) for allowing the juniour formulaes to get into such a mess yet the BRDC are straight in there supporting another new formula rather than giving their blessing to one that is already out there. What makes it worse is that one of the biggest single formula gatherings (WHT) is at Silverstone the home of the BRDC.

For too long commercial interests have led the juniour formula to the detriment of the sport. It starts in Karting where it is easier to sign a cheque than learn the craft. So lucrative is it that we now have Caterham and Ginetta getting involved so that they can lead you to the next level.

I just wonder if F4 would have happened if JP had known that F2 was over. The cynic in me suggests that we will see it as the step after F4.

[ivanalesi]

If they ask the drivers what they want to drive, then they'll always fail to find the market. It's like asking 18 y.o. with new IDs what car do they would want? Everybody will be making at least BMW M3s and most of the projected demand should be for Ferraris! It's not always the market that knows what it truly needs, you have to be inventive. We wouldn't have smart phones or even laptops if companies listened to everything the customers "needed".

[brakedisc]

Originally Posted by ivanalesi

If they ask the drivers what they want to drive, then they'll always fail to find the market. It's like asking 18 y.o. with new IDs what car do they would want? Everybody will be making at least BMW M3s and most of the projected demand should be for Ferraris! It's not always the market that knows what it truly needs, you have to be inventive. We wouldn't have smart phones or even laptops if companies listened to everything the customers "needed".

You are so right.

[Banger racer]

Originally Posted by ivanalesi

If they ask the drivers what they want to drive, then they'll always fail to find the market. It's like asking 18 y.o. with new IDs what car do they would want? Everybody will be making at least BMW M3s and most of the projected demand should be for Ferraris! It's not always the market that knows what it truly needs, you have to be inventive. We wouldn't have smart phones or even laptops if companies listened to everything the customers "needed".

I couldn't agree more. Young drivers want to (and need to) be learning the type of cars/equipment/technology they'll be using as they move up the ladder. I don't see the point spending two seasons getting to grips with a relatively unsophisticated car like the FFord. I think F4 has got it just right.

[ivanalesi]

I didn't want to mean this for sure! For me, the most, most, most important aspect of a racing championship is the level of the competition. How tight is the grid, how many drivers fight for the win and so on. If you bring down the costs, you're increasing this. So FFord is relevant as long as the organizers take a look at what made it so successful and bring it back. F4 is OK in the current market, but if it is still too complicated to be run by the driver's dad - then it's not what it needs to be brought to expand the market.
Tbh, technical knowledge isn't exactly hard to be learnt in the current age of simulators

[Peat]

Have they got a confirmed entry list yet?

I ask because i know at least 1 team that appears on the teams&drivers 'sold' list that is no longer doing it in favor of doing FF200 instead.

[DiamondJim]

Peat - they've said lots of times that all 24 cars have been sold, dating back several months, so I'd have thought it very unlikely any of them will drop out at this stage, with 3 months until it all gets underway? Pretty sure what's on the F4 site is the definitive list of teams anyway.

[bella]

really? has everyone made their final payments already or have they just paid deposits? i'd be surprised if everyone had signed up and paid entry fees already.

when do teams get the cars?

[brakedisc]

"when do teams get the cars? "

Knowing Ralph,"when they are paid for in full"

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

"when do teams get the cars? "

Knowing Ralph,"when they are paid for in full"

Why should it be any different?

[Banger racer]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

"when do teams get the cars? "

Knowing Ralph,"when they are paid for in full"

End of Jan/early Feb I think they orignally said. Still plenty of time I guess before the first race…be good watching 24 young drivers going for it around Silverstone!

[jobdone]

Just spotted a new F4 driver – Jake Dalton driving for Mark Godwin Racing - http://www.formula4.com/news/jake-dalton-joins-brdc-f4-with-mgr.aspx

[kipper]

Interesting to note that SWB have disapeared from the list of teams on the F4 website.

[andrewc]

They're still there as far as I can see? :confused:

[kipper]

Originally Posted by andrewc

They're still there as far as I can see? :confused:

Indeed they are. Not too sure what happened last time I looked at the F4 site.

[jondownunder]

At the time SWB announced their Formula Ford entry, thecheckeredflag reported this would be replacing the F4 program (announced earlier) - I assume this is the team Peat was alluding to.

http://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/20...-formula-ford/