The 'Great' WEC Grid Girl Debate

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

This thread needs more pics.

Signed,

Dirty Old Man.

The targeted Russian dating advertisement blocks with paid young girls posing in them on the side of this forum are more insulting than grid girls.

- Dirty Young Man

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

This thread needs more pics.

Signed,

Dirty Old Man.

Nah. I think we've got the gist.....

[GT6]

Well i am no longer a young man but i can see that grid girls are a dated thing and there time has gone, on the other hand the hawaiian tropic girls i used to enjoy, but they were advertising a product and were dressed to advertise that product, however they caused offence to some and have past into history at le mans

[bella]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

First, if you don't want to be photographed in public, simply don't go out. If you are in public, people can look at you, and if they want they can photograph you. If you find the photographers Too attentive, simply ask them not to. If they do not comply, Then there is an issue.

Otherwise ... Are you seriously suggesting that no man can ever photograph a woman in a wide open public event without being "creepy"?

oh lord.

i don't even know where to start with this.

[codename_47]

Dated is most certainly the world

This thread is NOT coming off well either.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by bella

oh lord. i don't even know where to start with this.

You could start with a little respect. Talk to me about the things I mentioned, Your view on those things, as if I were an actual human being, say, sitting in front of you, saying these things in a calm and respectful fashion.

Acting like I am an idiot doesn't really advance your side of the discussion.



By the way ... I have never gotten a bad reaction from a lady I photographed. Generally I get big smiles, sometimes even poses ... sometimes they call their friends over to get in the picture. If I was getting negative feedback, I would desist, whether or not it was verbal. I know, you can't believe a Neanderthal ... a "creepy old man" ... would care but ... hey, here's reality. Try it, it's fun!

[DistortedSmile]

I take pictures of people at the track all the time, that includes women.
I guess I'm a dirty old man too.
(Though I'm actually 27 and recently engaged).

[Maelochs]

Bella, I am sorry for my snide tone ... maybe I bristled a bit at being called "creepy."

In any case, I assume we are both rational and can discuss our differences calmly and without rancor.

[porsche91722]

8 pages, 108 posts over BS like this.
Be interesting to see if the bogans over at V8SC's decided to pull a stunt like this. Half their already depleting crowds, would disappear. The Gold Coast event would go broke, overnight. In fact, in that events case, Sex, Drugs, and rock and roll is exactly what they are promoting.
For Christs sake people, get out and enjoy yourselves, it's the Easter weekend. I'm only here 'cause it's ****ing it down, here in Sth East Qld and our traditional family camping trip has been rained out.

[isynge]

Adding, with great regret, to this thread.

When I worked in marketing it was notable that not one single one of my promotional dollars could go towards motor racing, partly because it had a lamentable dated reputation summed up by anachronisms like grid girls - and I'm delighted the WEC is starting down the road of moving away from the tawdry everyday sexism that's tarnished racing for far too long. If we get to the stage where racing's rehabilitated to the extent that brands see it as less toxic isn't the price of losing mild titillation for those who realistically would be better off buying a copy of Razzle worth paying?

Add to that the level to which it reflects the welcome extended to potential female enthusiasts? And the message about objectification of over half the world's population it sends to younger fans?

If you genuinely want to die in a ditch over this issues then fair enough - good luck to you - I can't and won't support your cause and fear we will not have a meeting of minds.

[porsche91722]

and while I'm at it...... What's with the nazi like vetting of the posts with the auto- censor?
It's Pi$$ing it down OK.

[codename_47]

Great insightful post isnygne, there's hope for the thread yet

Obviously I put this decision by WEC down to progressive, forward thinking and deciding off their own back to further the cause of women's rights.

Now after reading your post I fear they've just heard back from a few sponsors about how they won't put money into the series because of the dated, sexist reputation things like grid girls portray. Oh well

I guess there is a lot of credit where its due on the way, question is if it goes to WEC themselves or the people with money forcing their hand on this case.

The case continues

[Deleted]

Whenever people who don't know/care anything about motorsports - as in pretty much all I know - have said something to my following of it, grid girls have NEVER been brought up in any discussion. In fact only two things that's been mentioned have been

a) It's just dumb crashes and dumb ovals (some sort of NASCAR vibe, even though no-one in Finland even follows such thing)
b) It's environmentally not cool

Both - even though the first one is an overexaggeration - ultimately leading up to the concept of racing (or "rallying" as people around call it) being out of date with the world of today. If we start nitpicking on all little things this sport has old fashioned and ethically incorrect and not in line with what the big masses are into today, they sure as hell wouldn't be running these cars at Silverstone next weekend.

Paid girls showing up themselves in public events, again it's such common occurence that I cannot understand why people are picking up on it being anything out of ordinary. Or at least nothing more than minor part of the commercial business.

Anyway, someone earlier said that part of the annoyance that's come up with this probably has to do with the way the series handled it and publically boosted up PR with it's new innovative solution and rights blaa blaa blaa. If they had just stayed quied and slowly phased grid girls out of the picture most probably wouldn't have even noted the effect. Whichever side they are on

[canamman]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

This thread needs more pics.

Signed,

Dirty Old Man.

Classic! You are in charge of keeping them (anti GG's) away
from our grid walks in the dirty south. And keep them away from our
Cheerleaders!

[Fogelhund]

Always entertaining when a bunch of men are discussing what is best for women, with the butthurt undertone of not being able to see as many t!ts in tight clothing

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Whenever people who don't know/care anything about motorsports - as in pretty much all I know - have said something to my following of it, grid girls have NEVER been brought up in any discussion. In fact only two things that's been mentioned have been

a) It's just dumb crashes and dumb ovals (some sort of NASCAR vibe, even though no-one in Finland even follows such thing)
b) It's environmentally not cool

Both - even though the first one is an overexaggeration - ultimately leading up to the concept of racing being out of date with the world of today. If we start nitpicking on all little things this sport has old fashioned and ethically incorrect and not in line with what the big masses are into today, they sure as hell wouldn't be running these cars at Silverstone next weekend.

Paid girls showing up themselves in public events, again it's such common occurence that I cannot understand why people are picking up on it being anything out of ordinary. Or at least nothing more than minor part of the commercial business.

Anyway, someone earlier said that part of the annoyance that's come up with this probably has to do with the way the series handled it and publically boosted up PR with it's new innovative solution and rights blaa blaa blaa. If they had just stayed quied and slowly phased grid girls out of the picture most probably wouldn't have even noted the effect. Whichever side they are on

Again, on the other side of it, I've never heard anyone say "Can't wait to go to silverstone/le mans/monaco/whatever to see some of those grid girls, maybe I'll stick around and watch the racing too.."

The racing world will continue as normal without them, the crowds will not flock out the gates the second they realise there's no grid girls there to ogle.

It's time we started making this sport more attractive for females to want to be an equal part of, instead of think they have to look good enough be paid to be there and tolerate it.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

8 pages, 108 posts over BS like this.

My thoughts exactly. Regardless of "politics" (really!?) or the PR release this is such a non issue!!

I do personally think it's a good decision however.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Always entertaining when a bunch of men are discussing what is best for women, with the butthurt undertone of not being able to see as many t!ts in tight clothing

Always good to hear these expert opinions from you as well.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by codename_47

It's time we started making this sport more attractive for females to want to be an equal part of, instead of think they have to look good enough be paid to be there and tolerate it.

Where is this based on? Do we REALLY think this is the reason, or even part of the reason there are so few females in higher ranks of racing?

It doesn't have anything to do with higher percentage of males being in this specific sport simply because car racing is something more attributed to interests of the other gender? Car racing as driving fast vehicles on road against each other in the name of competition, which has nothing to do with seeing some grid girls standing in the background for few minutes before going off.

It's pure numbers. If we asked 1000 males and females whether they would want to become racers right now if they got the backing and all of that, the amount of interested males would be higher. Modern woman is likely gonna be less into it, and the genders have been conditionally led from the beginning of their life to do and be interested of "boy things" or "girl things". Cars and dinosaurs, dolls and princesses to generalize it. It's just the way things are, if we asked another question from other end of the spectrum the females would likely have higher interest in participating in that. Of course it's not as black and white as that, sometimes things thought and even designed to be solely geared towards one gender may actually bring surprising results (you only need to look at my profile pic to figure this out ) and in todays world the bridge is much smaller than it used to be, but if we generalize things males are going to be more interested in things normally oriented with them, and otherwise round.

Also, because it's unisex sport - making motor racing one of the LEAST sexist sports out there - the females in most of cases are less physically strong (because of human anatomy), which could possibly work against them.

Therefore, as there is smaller amount of females in the sport, the chance of getting in the high leagues is numerically smaller. And if you don't have the following
A) The pure talent
B) Money lying around / family backing / many sponsors
C) Famous surname
Or at least one of them to get at the top, what do you to stand out from the crowd? Of course this only applies to very few (say Danica) but if you want to go down that road, it is the looks that can help you to advance.

So in the context of getting females into sport, I think grid girls and getting or not getting rid of them is the LEAST OF CONCERNS.

Oh and by the way, if we go back to sports with separate female leagues, these gals sure as heck don't seem afraid of performing half naked in front of mostly men eating hotdogs (and cheerleaders)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIdjlGppXmw

[garcon]

If I was going to take someone's photograph in a public place I'd generally ask their permission first. Is that basic level of politeness old fashioned now?

[Lanky Turtle]

It's not as though they are standing there doing nothing. They're holding a sign up so people on the grid will know which car is where from a distance at ground level. And many of them are doing a damn good job at it!

Perhaps they will replace them with "grid people", of all ages, size, and sexual orientation. A true representation of the general public.

Personally, I applaud the FIA and/or ACO for making this progressive step forward. I am going to miss staring at those T's though.

[Deleted]

Forgot to add in the previous post that the same can apply not only to female drivers but to people interested in working in racing engineering / trackside operations as well. Not as much but still a bit.

Assisting motorsports background jobs like PR and sales and organization etc are already vacated by big number of females of course but those aren't really the sort of jobs we were talking about in the context, and to them the grid girl point of view is surely equally as meaningless

[Gingers4Justice]

This thread is interesting because it exposes the generational and cultural differences of a diverse group of people - I mean we really are from all over the place on here, and at different stages of our lives. We all have something in common - we're passionate about motor racing, and even more specifically than that, we're passionate about sports cars. We have differing opinions within that realm but it's not that great in the grand scheme of things. We all agree that sports car racing is worth getting excited about to the point where we have to log on to the internet and talk to like-minded strangers about it, and we all loosely agree (I hope) that none of this really matters. It's meant to be fun!

But it's no surprise to me that a subject like this sparks such emotive responses and heated discussion. Is it a bad thing? Not for me. Let's have it in the open and let's learn.

At least we haven't got onto politics yet

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This thread is interesting because it exposes the generational and cultural differences of a diverse group of people - I mean we really are from all over the place on here, and at different stages of our lives. We all have something in common - we're passionate about motor racing, and even more specifically than that, we're passionate about sports cars. We have differing opinions within that realm but it's not that great in the grand scheme of things. We all agree that sports car racing is worth getting excited about to the point where we have to log on to the internet and talk to like-minded strangers about it, and we all loosely agree (I hope) that none of this really matters. It's meant to be fun!

But it's no surprise to me that a subject like this sparks such emotive responses and heated discussion. Is it a bad thing? Not for me. Let's have it in the open and let's learn.

At least we haven't got onto politics yet

Exactly. I find it interesting how polarizing and passionate this debate is and personally feel both sides are reading far too deeply into it. Then again, that's my general thoughts about many issues as I can generally can find common ground on both sides of the debate.

Moving forward, let little kids do this, much like soccer, sorry, football does. Think Hindy suggested that a year or so ago and I really like that idea, seeing that the other "option" has been removed.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This thread is interesting because it exposes the generational and cultural differences of a diverse group of people - I mean we really are from all over the place on here, and at different stages of our lives. We all have something in common - we're passionate about motor racing, and even more specifically than that, we're passionate about sports cars. We have differing opinions within that realm but it's not that great in the grand scheme of things. We all agree that sports car racing is worth getting excited about to the point where we have to log on to the internet and talk to like-minded strangers about it, and we all loosely agree (I hope) that none of this really matters. It's meant to be fun!

But it's no surprise to me that a subject like this sparks such emotive responses and heated discussion. Is it a bad thing? Not for me. Let's have it in the open and let's learn.

At least we haven't got onto politics yet

Absolutely, let's be open and stand up for principles we believe in here.

I for one am happy to do so. For me women have a place in motorsport as drivers, engineers, owners, and fans, not as objects.

A woman in motorsport makes her opinion clear here, and I'd be fascinated to hear the thoughts of those that think her opinions aren't valid.

Motorsport's got a choice. It can remain predominantly sexist, raging against "them" who don't understand it, or it can evolve and think about the world it exists within and which ultimately pays for it. Nobody's telling what choice to make, just choosing how seriously to take it on the back of the choices it makes.

As Marcus Aurelius put it, "It's up to you". Which means if we believe in motorsport it's up to all of us to build the sport the rest of world sees and which stands or falls. If scantily clad women is so central to racing for the critical mass of fans then a plague on all our houses.