2015 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 6-8 February

[Hingo]

Agreed. The same group organise the Easter weekend races so I think it would be a high possibility.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Hingo

James O'Brien has stated himself it is likely to turn into a GT only event. They are going to review it after next years event. I think the speed difference will always remain as long as you have GT4 spec cars.

Is there a link to such a declaration.

The question I have is sustainability. GT racing is booming at the moment and we are all loving it, however everything has cycles and its not possible to sustain 55 GT only cars year in and year out.

This is where Production and Invitation classes are vital - they provide sustainability while also providing very interesting class battles and sub plots to an endurance race.

If they do separate (hopefully not) I would suggest a 3 hour Production endurance race on Saturday evening would be a good addition to the overall event.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Is there a link to such a declaration.

The question I have is sustainability. GT racing is booming at the moment and we are all loving it, however everything has cycles and its not possible to sustain 55 GT only cars year in and year out.

This is where Production and Invitation classes are vital - they provide sustainability while also providing very interesting class battles and sub plots to an endurance race.

If they do separate (hopefully not) I would suggest a 3 hour Production endurance race on Saturday evening would be a good addition to the overall event.

This maybe what Hingo was referring to ?

• 29 November 2014 Bathurst 12 Hour News

Speedcafe.com's Stefan Bartholomaeus caught up with Bathurst 12 Hour director James O'Brien to talk about the event's recent growth and its plan for the future Read More

[peckstar]

is there a desire from competitors to have a 12 hour production race, they dont exactly seem to be lining up for the current 12 hour

[Hingo]

Yep that's the one thanks Reload. A production support enduro would be great to have on the Saturday. I'm not sure about demand from the production car drivers/teams for the 12 hour. It is very expensive. I have a mate who was offered a drive but getting the funds together was too difficult. A lot of them probably choose the Easter races which is a nice club event.

[nafe!]

Unfortunately last night I was interrupted and had to press send before my post was actually complete.

So continuing my previous post... During the 2014 event I witnessed many sketchy moments across the top of the mountain between the production machinery and basically every faster class above it. Some of it avoidable and clearly down to the drivers involved and others simply due to speed differential. Who can forget the heart in mouth moment as lowndes took to the grass on the inside to avoid that horribly driven(by at least the offending driver) gt4 bmw...it came so close to being a massive crash between both cars and would have taken out the eventual race winner.

I think moving the production cars to slicks was a good move but I really don't see a place for them in the future of the event and as it grows in line with James O'briens comments I see the event being a sports car and race car only event.

One of the sadder aspects is that most of the production cars are getting on in age and no one appears to be to interested in building new cars and campaigning them in the race.

To be honest im not to concerned with where they go and race and going by how the amc series just gets by despite the enormous potential for a fantastic series, I don't ever really expect them to get together again and participate in an event like the 12hours when they are no longer the show case.

The sun has set on the old iteration of the 12hours and risen on a international masterpiece!

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by Hingo

Yep that's the one thanks Reload. A production support enduro would be great to have on the Saturday. I'm not sure about demand from the production car drivers/teams for the 12 hour. It is very expensive. I have a mate who was offered a drive but getting the funds together was too difficult. A lot of them probably choose the Easter races which is a nice club event.

The profit from all the 12hour entries would have to greater then the profit made by all the support classes that currently race on Saturday for this to be a viable option.

I love the idea of a 3 or 4 hour production car enduro "curtain raiser" but I cant speak as for wether there will be enough entrants and continued support by them in the future to make it viable.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

is there a desire from competitors to have a 12 hour production race, they dont exactly seem to be lining up for the current 12 hour

This is an old and invalid argument.

Most of the production car entrants got ****ed off with the 12hr organisers after the announcement to include GT cars in 2011 was made, and said they wouldn't return, and they haven't.

The production car guys went from having cars capable of winning the event to being add-ons (and ultimatly unwanted for the event as a whole it seems).

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by nafe!

...............The sun has set on the old iteration of the 12hours and risen on a international masterpiece!

Never were truer words spoken!
Just in relation to the support events, I realize that some people are interested, so good on them, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rats. I travel 1000 klms to enjoy the 12H and to see some of the best GT3 cars and drivers in the world. The under-card which I guess helps to financially prop up the weekend, holds no interest to me whatsoever.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

This is an old and invalid argument.

Most of the production car entrants got ****ed off with the 12hr organisers after the announcement to include GT cars in 2011 was made, and said they wouldn't return, and they haven't.

The production car guys went from having cars capable of winning the event to being add-ons (and ultimatly unwanted for the event as a whole it seems).

I think its very valid

either class racing is important and therefore the production guys are prepared to run around and win their class.

Or its not important and its only there to make up numbers and thus to cut production classes is no big deal

But the production guys dont turn . The decision on class racing is made

[one five five]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I think its very valid

either class racing is important and therefore the production guys are prepared to run around and win their class.

Or its not important and its only there to make up numbers and thus to cut production classes is no big deal

But the production guys dont turn . The decision on class racing is made

Would you enter your Subaru if this year you are fighting for outright victory (and have perhaps sold some sponsorship signage because of this), but next year your same car is just a class car?

The production car guys were made to feel that this was 'their' event by the organisers, then all of a sudden the rug is pulled from under them and faster cars from completely different category is invited in.

If the proddie guys were just class cars right from the re-birth in 2007, i'm sure the production car numbers would still be high in interest levels for the 12hr and there would never have been an issue, but after the way they were treated, being made to feel loved and so on and so forth before the goal posts were moved, I don't blame them for not being interested anymore after the goal posts were moved on the run.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Would you enter your Subaru if this year you are fighting for outright victory (and have perhaps sold some sponsorship signage because of this), but next year your same car is just a class car?

The production car guys were made to feel that this was 'their' event by the organisers, then all of a sudden the rug is pulled from under them and faster cars from completely different category is invited in.

If the proddie guys were just class cars right from the re-birth in 2007, i'm sure the production car numbers would still be high in interest levels for the 12hr and there would never have been an issue, but after the way they were treated, being made to feel loved and so on and so forth before the goal posts were moved, I don't blame them for not being interested anymore after the goal posts were moved on the run.

your dragging up something that happened 5 years ago to support something that is happening next year. No Subarus or Evos next year, Surely if they wanted to run 12 hours they can compete in the appropriate class in 2015, but they only want to race if they can win outright because class racing is over rated

[one five five]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Just in relation to the support events, I realize that some people are interested, so good on them, but to be honest, I couldn't give a rats. I travel 1000 klms to enjoy the 12H and to see some of the best GT3 cars and drivers in the world. The under-card which I guess helps to financially prop up the weekend, holds no interest to me whatsoever.

Your probably not alone in that respect to be fair.

Perhaps more practice time for the 12hr cars if a support category or two was dropped?

Afterall the 1000 never had a support race at all for over 20 years

[scudd]

I entered class b in 2011. I was happy to run for a class win, and not outright.
The chance to run for 12hrs at Bathurst is something too good to pass up.
If the production lads hadn't of spat the dummy, I reckon there could still be a class for them, with say the first 10 entries competing for their own class. Plenty of class b runners next year happy with the current arrangement.
The promotor would always want to keep in with different people as you never know what the future holds.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

your dragging up something that happened 5 years ago to support something that is happening next year. No Subarus or Evos next year, Surely if they wanted to run 12 hours they can compete in the appropriate class in 2015, but they only want to race if they can win outright because class racing is over rated

Class racing is not overated. If thats the case why do we have Class A, B, C, D and I?

As Scudd has eluded too - why you would actively push any competitors away when we could be relying multiple classes of cars to make 55 (or whatever a good number is deemed to be) baffles the mind.

Long term sustainability needs to be in the forefront of every decision made in the event.

[GroupCAction]

http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/12/17/...hurst-12-hour/

Bentley have a solid pool of drivers to pull from. I guess someone like Percat could be good for them. Is someone like John Bowe seeded or unseeded?

And of the Bentley boys that ran in this years Blancpain would any of them be unseeded?

All i'm thinking is maybe move Bowe over to the factory squad IF he is unseeded & someone like Percat could fit nicely with Brabham & Edwards...

[EfiOz]

Salo, D'Ablerto, Collins, who's the unseeded one then?

http://bathurst12hour.com.au/news-maranello-drivers

[velly4]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

Salo, D'Ablerto, Collins, who's the unseeded one then?

http://bathurst12hour.com.au/news-maranello-drivers

I thought exactly the same thing.....

[GroupCAction]

I guess Collins is the unseeded one, nice signing from Maranello there.

He ran for RAM in the Silverstone round this year of the WEC but besides that i don't think he's done alot of steering of recent. I could be wrong. And his earlier career wasn't exactly championship win after championship win... BUT with his experience he is a good "unseeded" signing

[JHamilton]

I have nothing constructive to add to the thread other than to say February is so far away.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by GroupCAction

I guess Collins is the unseeded one, nice signing from Maranello there.

He ran for RAM in the Silverstone round this year of the WEC but besides that i don't think he's done alot of steering of recent. I could be wrong. And his earlier career wasn't exactly championship win after championship win... BUT with his experience he is a good "unseeded" signing

Definitely Collins. I believe he has run as an Am at Le Mans, WEC, ELMS etc

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by GroupCAction

http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/12/17/...hurst-12-hour/

Bentley have a solid pool of drivers to pull from. I guess someone like Percat could be good for them. Is someone like John Bowe seeded or unseeded?

I'm thinking Ingall would be perfect for Bentley as well if Erebus haven't already approached him as a potential tie up with the V8 enduros later next year.

[1961]

For all the V8 Supercars carry on about stopping "their" drivers from competing in the 12 Hour, most (4 out of 6) drivers who stood on the podium at this year's Bathurst 1000 are actually still available to drive in the 12 Hour in February. So plenty of talent to pick from. Love the idea of Russell Ingall being a Bentley Boy!!!

[6.213km]

Originally Posted by 1961

For all the V8 Supercars carry on about stopping "their" drivers from competing in the 12 Hour, most (4 out of 6) drivers who stood on the podium at this year's Bathurst 1000 are actually still available to drive in the 12 Hour in February. So plenty of talent to pick from. Love the idea of Russell Ingall being a Bentley Boy!!!

Absolutely spot on.

There would have only been a few V8 drivers involved - Lowndes, R.Kelly along with some of the other Nissan guys had they fielded two GTRs, W.Davison, SVG to name a few and perhap Murf may have had a drive though his TV commitments may have put a hold on that ...

Whilst these guys really do increase the profile of an event like B12Hr, the profile has been lifted even more by the fact they aren't able to be there next year.

V8 regulars such as Steven Richards, Tony D, Luffy, and indeed any co-driver is eligible - Drivers off contract such as Percat / Ingall / Pye would all be great choices.

It's going to be a ripper event. Absolutely no doubt about it.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by 6.213km

Absolutely spot on.

There would have only been a few V8 drivers involved - Lowndes, R.Kelly along with some of the other Nissan guys had they fielded two GTRs, W.Davison, SVG to name a few and perhap Murf may have had a drive though his TV commitments may have put a hold on that ...

Whilst these guys really do increase the profile of an event like B12Hr, the profile has been lifted even more by the fact they aren't able to be there next year.

V8 regulars such as Steven Richards, Tony D, Luffy, and indeed any co-driver is eligible - Drivers off contract such as Percat / Ingall / Pye would all be great choices.

It's going to be a ripper event. Absolutely no doubt about it.

Now if only you said that 6 months ago. then this thread would be half the length

55 cars is great though and such a wide variety, excited by the addition of Bentley. shame the new McLarens cant race (will be good to see them at Clipsal)