[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

They didnt get there by being liberal with their money thats for sure.

[msd76]

Originally Posted by TF110

They didnt get there by being liberal with their money thats for sure.

If they weren’t liberal with the money from the F1 days they wouldn’t be operating out of base with one of the best wind tunnels and fabrication facilities in the world.

We shouldn’t be surprized with Toyota’s success when you consider the years they have been working on HY races cars coupled with the F1 standard facilities behind the TS030 and TS040. This whole Toyota’s budget is smaller thing is misleading, when for example what Toyota can do in house, Audi and Porsche have to pay to use someone else’s wind tunnel, for someone else to build the tub and parts etc. What the others have to paying for now Toyota paid for years ago. And it great to see they are finally getting a return for all the billions they poured into F1.

[TF110]

F1 was a mistake according to some in Toyota. Of course they spend huge amounts of money (like r&d) but thats for making money. Them being in f1 was a surprise for me. I was glad they were racing there, but I always thought it was 'courageous' of them. Honda always seemed like the Japanese company interested in f1. But lmp1 imo is just as good and in some ways even better.

[TzeiTzei]

If fielding only two cars means that the WEC program is atleast somewhat financially sustainable, then I have no problem with it. If the program isn't a huge financial burden and gets atleast some good PR and maybe some R&D benefits aswell then there is bigger chance for them to stay longer in the WEC. I kind of like Toyota's approach of not trying to outspend everybody else.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by msd76

We shouldn’t be surprized with Toyota’s success when you consider the years they have been working on HY races cars coupled with the F1 standard facilities behind the TS030 and TS040. This whole Toyota’s budget is smaller thing is misleading, when for example what Toyota can do in house, Audi and Porsche have to pay to use someone else’s wind tunnel, for someone else to build the tub and parts etc. What the others have to paying for now Toyota paid for years ago. And it great to see they are finally getting a return for all the billions they poured into F1.

I'm glad someone mentioned this. I'm sure those of a certain persuasion will try to brush it off as a money-making exercise because TMG don't have sole access to these facilities, but if you were to ask anyone from (for instance) a series with significant aero dependency whether they would want a "decent" wind tunnel all to themselves or spend a day a week at the world's best wind tunnel, I'd be willing to bet the latter would be preferred.

Nobody is saying TMG have the cash that the VAG bros do - because they don't by quite a large margin - but money aside they do have comparable/superior resources to make use of. And going by this season, they're making the by far best use of what they have.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I'm glad someone mentioned this. I'm sure those of a certain persuasion will try to brush it off as a money-making exercise because TMG don't have sole access to these facilities, but if you were to ask anyone from (for instance) a series with significant aero dependency whether they would want a "decent" wind tunnel all to themselves or spend a day a week at the world's best wind tunnel, I'd be willing to bet the latter would be preferred.

Nobody is saying TMG have the cash that the VAG bros do - because they don't by quite a large margin - but money aside they do have comparable/superior resources to make use of. And going by this season, they're making the by far best use of what they have.

Note that Force India F1 plan to rent out their own tunnel and use Toyota's.
Says a lot for the quality of that facility.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Note that Force India F1 plan to rent out their own tunnel and use Toyota's.
Says a lot for the quality of that facility.

Didn't Ferrari also go crying to Cologne when wind tunnel was as going through major calibration problems? Even if they can't use it all the time, TMG obviously have brilliant aero facilities that I reckon Ullrich & Enzinger would bite their hands off for.

Shame it's "only" helping them be supremely successful in sportscars

[TF110]

They have twin wind tunnels. One is a full size and the other is a 60% scale. But Im not sure how the rules work with regard to windtunnel scale in the wec. They may have to share time using the 60% tunnel with Force India among others (f1 limits it to 60%). McLaren, Ferrari, Caterham have all used TMG before as well. Theyll probably make some good money this year thanks to F-I.

[FstrthnU]

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/c...ota-wec-drive/
Looks like it's almost official, Conway will replace someone (likely Lapierre) next year in the TS040 for the full season.

[Alex Langheck]

I'm not sure it has any effect, but the WRC regs for 2017 aren't going to be revolutionary; meaning no hybrids. I got the impression that was what Toyota wanted.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117111

[TF110]

Yeah and Subaru were looking for hybrid regs too. This is good news for my tastes because I feel Toyota would probably drop the wec program after a year or two doing both. I like rallying, but lmp1 is my favorite.

[TF110]

Autosport Japan has Toyota's wec "activity report" in 2 parts, here is the first http://as-web.jp/news/info.php?c_id=9&no=62110

[MyNameIsNigel]

According to German SportAuto magazine, Toyota have reportedly announced at Sao Paulo that they will stop supplying engines to customer LMP1 teams starting from next year. This evidently and directly impacts Rebellion Racing. The AER engine is identified as a likely replacement.

[Japanese Samurai]

Toyota revealed the secret downforce figures of TS040 hybrid.
(front: 640kg, rear: 810kg @280km/h)
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...16_680406.html

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Toyota revealed the secret downforce figures of TS040 hybrid.
(front: 640kg, rear: 810kg @280km/h)
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...16_680406.html

Interesting article. Am I correct that Toyota claim in this article that they have managed to achieve a thermal efficiency of more than 40% with the latest engine iteration ?

It also appears that the article contains a statement according to which the new 3.7l V8 weighs about 100 kg.

[Japanese Samurai]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Interesting article. Am I correct that Toyota claim in this article that they have managed to achieve a thermal efficiency of more than 40% with the latest engine iteration ?

It also appears that the article contains a statement according to which the new 3.7l V8 weighs about 100 kg.

Yes. Toyota confirms that
-TS040 engine weight is about 100 kg.
-TS040 engine's thermal efficiency is more than 40%.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Yes. Toyota confirms that
-TS040 engine weight is about 100 kg.
-TS040 engine's thermal efficiency is more than 40%.

Many thanks

[TF110]

Article also details exactly what I suspected at the prologue. They were running full fuel tanks and used tires as to not show their hand. They suspect Audi was doing the same. An interesting photo from the article-



Every round but Bahrain went up in attendance.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Article also details exactly what I suspected at the prologue. They were running full fuel tanks and used tires as to not show their hand. They suspect Audi was doing the same. An interesting photo from the article-



Every round but Bahrain went up in attendance.

Makes you wonder why an FIA-WEC race is organized at Bahrain...

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Toyota revealed the secret downforce figures of TS040 hybrid.
(front: 640kg, rear: 810kg @280km/h)
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...16_680406.html

Looks like they were talking about that mythical ability of prototypes being able to drive upside down due to their down force. Still waiting for someone to actually prove or disprove this.

[cokata]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Toyota revealed the secret downforce figures of TS040 hybrid.
(front: 640kg, rear: 810kg @280km/h)
http://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/...16_680406.html

if these DF numbers are for the Le Mans LD package, then it's quite impressive considering that the Bentley Speed 8 that was wider and back then they had huge rear wings generated 1320kg @290kph in LD trim.

[TF110]

1450kg of downforce vs 870kg vehicle weight. Thats a big number. Heres an article about driving upside down- http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ve-upside-down. The theory is if it makes its weight in downforce it should be possible.

[TRuss]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

Looks like they were talking about that mythical ability of prototypes being able to drive upside down due to their down force. Still waiting for someone to actually prove or disprove this.

If an airplane is able to leave the ground by generating more lift than it weighs then why shouldn't a prototype be able to do the same? Negatively of course. Speed is critical for both however.

[Simmi]

It's good to see Toyota are now activating against this championship victory.

They are taking out adverts in print media (such as TIME Magazine) and I've also seen a TV advert appear this week - all with the message 'Raising the Excitement'.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's good to see Toyota are now activating against this championship victory.

They are taking out adverts in print media (such as TIME Magazine) and I've also seen a TV advert appear this week - all with the message 'Raising the Excitement'.

That is very important - it means that the corporate branch of Toyota is starting to see the value of the investment they made.
I wonder if we will see stickers on all new Toyotas next year, if they win Le Mans