Delta Wing Discussion ONLY

[deltawing]

It is a variation of this:



Just having fun, no one has to like it!

If you want to see few more:

www.aliasguy.com/dw-classic/index.html

Then here is more of the "Eagle" variation:

http://www.aliasguy.com/dw-eagle/index.html

(it looks better if you go full screen browser)

Cheers.

.

[TME45]

could we use the 2CV race tire?

[Jacques Rabbit]

With DeltaWing part of P2 in 2014-15, I guess we can assume it is a P2 in 2013, as well.

By the way, I like the concept renders on that site. Neat.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by TME45

could we use the 2CV race tire?

I am planning on putting early 90's Miata spare wheels and tires in front for now If they are really building few more DW cars, then eventually one day the real tires will be available to us too..... well, at least there is a hope!

.

[TME45]

Originally Posted by deltawing

I am planning on putting early 90's Miata spare wheels and tires in front for now If they are really building few more DW cars, then eventually one day the real tires will be available to us too..... well, at least there is a hope!

.

does a spare wheel get enough grip?

[joeb]

From MM on twitter:

Mike Fuller ‏@mulsannescorner
DW rumor 2013: 4 chassis total, 3 new closed top "purchased by Nissan" and the old open top will run Elan (Duratec) engine.

I have to assume these will be running in the ALMS, and the latest has the DW in P1, not P2. If that ends up being true it will be interesting to see how they are then balanced back to P2 levels for 2014.

[TME45]

Originally Posted by joeb

From MM on twitter:



I have to assume these will be running in the ALMS, and the latest has the DW in P1, not P2. If that ends up being true it will be interesting to see how they are then balanced back to P2 levels for 2014.

maybe it can be run different chassis in p1 & p2 @ the same time?

[deltawing]

Here, fresh from the oven, the DeltaWing Couple in LMP1 configuration



and a front perspective shot...



Few more angles in the link below. For best view, go full screen browser, click below and wait for large images to load:

http://www.aliasguy.com/dw-coupe-lmp1/index.html

Cheers.

.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Man that looks so much like a Batmobile from the first of the modern films.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Your renders are so, so cool.

Originally Posted by joeb

I have to assume these will be running in the ALMS, and the latest has the DW in P1, not P2. If that ends up being true it will be interesting to see how they are then balanced back to P2 levels for 2014.

I thought they announced with the Grand-Am stuff that DeltaWing would be a P2 for 2013. Maybe I misunderstood, or maybe there's a new rumor about P1s? I'd love to see a P1 DeltaWing, personally.

Originally Posted by TME45

maybe it can be run different chassis in p1 & p2 @ the same time?

It was my understanding (as if my understanding is worth anything ) that the Panoz DeltaWing with the Duratec engine would be an LMP2, so perhaps the coupes are for an LMP1? I've no idea, but I'd love to see the car in a class with conventional competition. Love to see it at Le Mans again, too, though I doubt it in the foreseeable future.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

It was my understanding (as if my understanding is worth anything ) that the Panoz DeltaWing with the Duratec engine would be an LMP2, so perhaps the coupes are for an LMP1? I've no idea, but I'd love to see the car in a class with conventional competition. Love to see it at Le Mans again, too, though I doubt it in the foreseeable future.

How do you run it with conventional competition? They would all complain.

A separate efficiency class, set around P2, or maybe between P2 & P1, would create a playground for gearheads, but keep costs under control because it couldn't challenge for the overall win. The folks in the conventional classes wouldn't need to complain, because they wouldn't be racing against it. Eventually it would be necessary to cut the fuel allocation back to keep it from overall wins.

[TF110]

Decent render but how're you suppose to see out that thing?

[gwyllion]

Nice article on the RCE website: Developing the Deltawing

[Gingers4Justice]

I'd like a mini-class for Delta-Wings, with a little bit of freedom for further thinking outside the box.

The DW has untapped potential, as we know...the last thing it needs is to become a spec-racer. In fact, the whole concept was designed as an antithesis to spec racing!

[Canada ALMS fan]

By giving it its' own class then it IS spec racing. How about we try filling the classes we have instead of all these experimental classes? I'm all for innovation, in fact I expect it, by why not do it within the framework of the existing rules? There is nothing revolutionary on this car as it claims. Fuel efficiency can be promoted in P1/P2 with alternative fuels, direct injection, etc. So can aerodynamic efficiency.

[TME45]

looks like Nissan would like to join P1 with Deltawing?

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

By giving it its' own class then it IS spec racing. How about we try filling the classes we have instead of all these experimental classes? I'm all for innovation, in fact I expect it, by why not do it within the framework of the existing rules? There is nothing revolutionary on this car as it claims. Fuel efficiency can be promoted in P1/P2 with alternative fuels, direct injection, etc. So can aerodynamic efficiency.

If it's so un-innovative, why did so many people assure us it could never turn?

Hopefully as its own sort of laboratory for experimentation, it can remind the gearheads of how racing used to be and encourage the regular classes to open up a bit, using fuel limits as the primary mechanism for limiting speeds.

It's just been so long since technical rules were open enough to allow true innovation that everybody is now scared of it. This baby step is needed to get things pointed back in the right direction.

[lms]

Originally Posted by TME45

looks like Nissan would like to join P1 with Deltawing?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

By giving it its' own class then it IS spec racing. How about we try filling the classes we have instead of all these experimental classes? I'm all for innovation, in fact I expect it, by why not do it within the framework of the existing rules? There is nothing revolutionary on this car as it claims. Fuel efficiency can be promoted in P1/P2 with alternative fuels, direct injection, etc. So can aerodynamic efficiency.

Depends what you define as "spec", I mean all kinds of racing these days is "spec" in some ways, like ECUs, tires, the cameras on top of the car..

Maybe you could have a class for DWs, but leave the engine and tub completely up to you. Everyone gets the same Michelins the original Nissan incarnation got, work the rules so that the philosophy of this class matches the DW as a blueprint, and you have a pretty interesing class IMO.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by miatanut

If it's so un-innovative, why did so many people assure us it could never turn?

Hopefully as its own sort of laboratory for experimentation, it can remind the gearheads of how racing used to be and encourage the regular classes to open up a bit, using fuel limits as the primary mechanism for limiting speeds.

It's just been so long since technical rules were open enough to allow true innovation that everybody is now scared of it. This baby step is needed to get things pointed back in the right direction.

I'm not trying to put words in our Canadian friend's mouth, but as I understood it, he (or she) was implying that what DeltaWing sets out to accomplish could be accomplished by the conventional cars if the rules allowed some more freedom, and if the money to do that were there (or perhaps not even if; maybe it is all allowed, just not done). I think the point is that pushing the limits of efficiency should be a goal and an outcome of LMP rules, rather than a goal and an outcome of a car designed with no rules and then granted a place on the grid.

I do hope the interest in DeltaWing has been strong enough to remind the ACO et al that the class rules should allow for these kinds of creations, rather than for these creations to be made and then shuffled into a class in which they aren't really legal to run. That would be a nice legacy for this project. It's also not one I anticipate happening given the constraints of reality.

I am a big fan of the DeltaWing, but I see the arguments against including a car that's not legal. Innovation isn't always obvious (look at the TS030H) and bold, and I think DeltaWing overshadows some of the interesting things that are happening in cars based on the actual rules. So I see that side, too.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Spot on Jacques. For the record I am a fan as well. Seeing it actually run at Petit was pretty cool. That's what sportscar racing is about - cool cars and innovation. That's why knowing who owns the "merged" series concerns me.

[deltawing]

This looks like a fresh video from Jan 9th, quick interview with Ben Bowlby. It is interesting watch (the interview with him starts at 4.40 and I made the link to start right there for your convenience):

http://youtu.be/Nn4wSaAcgFA?t=4m40s

At one point he says (not precise quote): "A lot of colleagues say if they can have 500 kg and 300 hp on a conventional car, they can do as well as the DW. I say: Bring it on! Let's do it! Let's have a race and see who is the most fuel efficient"....

It will be interesting to see if someone "brings it on" and have real life comparison...

Cheers.

.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

I'm not trying to put words in our Canadian friend's mouth, but as I understood it, he (or she) was implying that what DeltaWing sets out to accomplish could be accomplished by the conventional cars if the rules allowed some more freedom, and if the money to do that were there (or perhaps not even if; maybe it is all allowed, just not done). I think the point is that pushing the limits of efficiency should be a goal and an outcome of LMP rules, rather than a goal and an outcome of a car designed with no rules and then granted a place on the grid.

I do hope the interest in DeltaWing has been strong enough to remind the ACO et al that the class rules should allow for these kinds of creations, rather than for these creations to be made and then shuffled into a class in which they aren't really legal to run. That would be a nice legacy for this project. It's also not one I anticipate happening given the constraints of reality.

I am a big fan of the DeltaWing, but I see the arguments against including a car that's not legal. Innovation isn't always obvious (look at the TS030H) and bold, and I think DeltaWing overshadows some of the interesting things that are happening in cars based on the actual rules. So I see that side, too.

Right.

That's the end game on all of this, but that requires completely blowing up the status quo. Throwing the P1/P2 rules out and starting over. The ACO, FIA, and anyone else aren't ready to do that yet, but if all goes well, a class with more open rules and requiring efficiency to be competitive will show that the world didn't end, and in fact things got a lot more interesting by taking this approach. Then they can have the nerve to do something similar with the "normal" classes and the dark days of spec racing may end.

[porsche91722]

There's the likes and the dislikes. Without rehashing all the arguments for and against again, the whole saga, IMO, is just an enormous publicity exercise and it's worked. Nissan rolled up, paid their money and got the rights to hang their hat on it. Anyone can now front up by the looks of it, create some freak-show outside of the existing rules, and under the guise of innovation, bring the latest publicity gimmick to the racetracks of the world and bleed it for what it's worth. Good on Nissan and the Delta Wing! If the budgets that Audi supposedly have for their P1 team are to be believed, they could probably "out innovate" the Delta Wing any time they choose.
Who's up next?

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

There's the likes and the dislikes. Without rehashing all the arguments for and against again, the whole saga, IMO, is just an enormous publicity exercise and it's worked. Nissan rolled up, paid their money and got the rights to hang their hat on it. Anyone can now front up by the looks of it, create some freak-show outside of the existing rules, and under the guise of innovation, bring the latest publicity gimmick to the racetracks of the world and bleed it for what it's worth. Good on Nissan and the Delta Wing! If the budgets that Audi supposedly have for their P1 team are to be believed, they could probably "out innovate" the Delta Wing any time they choose.
Who's up next?

While I'm not an Audi fan, I respect what they've done, and if the P1 rules were opened-up, I would expect them to dominate and I would be fine with that. This business of rules which force the cars to be inefficient is ridiculous.