[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Articus]

Fortunately for Toyota, the WEC calendar does not give two hoots about the braking zones that Toyota likes.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Articus

Fortunately for Toyota, the WEC calendar does not give two hoots about the braking zones that Toyota likes.

Whats that mean?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

I read the post on the facebook page, he didnt say a full second faster. He only mentioned Toyota did a 1:36 in testing. Unless he elaborated further in another post. .

He actually said it on air.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

He actually said it on air.

During the Silverstone race or a MWM episode?

[Toyotats03OUS]

What are the chances that toyota might be BSing a lil bit ?what if they dont want to show what they got until le mans?what if they are just letting the competition feel confident of what they have and they (toyota) are just hiding and playing the acting game....i mean think about it , if you show what you got now ,,it is going to give a chance to the competition to adjust and get better. but if you play your card right and and make the right move at the right time,it is on...there is that rumor of the 1:36 at paul,,,"i know there is no solid prove,," but the rumor is there....toyota won the championship last year,but what they really want is le mans and giving up a few races for the big price is nothing to them,,i like to believe the that is what is really going on,,maybe not, maybe they really messed up ,,time will tell...

[Deleted]

It's hard to believe that team that only brings 2 cars against 3 of others would "give up few races" for Le Mans.

In any case, they are all of course sandbagging a little bit, but now that pre-bopping of 2012-2013 is no longer possible there is no reason at all to hide out performance. Even if manufacturer X was 5 seconds faster than anyone else at Silverstone and Spa, they still wouldn't stand still and prepare lazily for Le Mans, it's the number one priority of the season and nothing else matters in comparison. You don't take it easy. So no, I don't believe they're hiding anything beyond the usual small amount everyone always is.

[TF110]

They admit Silverstone doesn't work so well for their type of hybrid harvesting. I think Spa is better, but its not like Le Mans with hard braking consistently. Hope no bop is applied to the cars this year. Let them fight it out as they are.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Toyotats03OUS

What are the chances that toyota might be BSing a lil bit ?what if they dont want to show what they got until le mans?what if they are just letting the competition feel confident of what they have and they (toyota) are just hiding and playing the acting game....i mean think about it , if you show what you got now ,,it is going to give a chance to the competition to adjust and get better. but if you play your card right and and make the right move at the right time,it is on...there is that rumor of the 1:36 at paul,,,"i know there is no solid prove,," but the rumor is there....toyota won the championship last year,but what they really want is le mans and giving up a few races for the big price is nothing to them,,i like to believe the that is what is really going on,,maybe not, maybe they really messed up ,,time will tell...

I would love to believe this, but im not too sure at this stage. At least one of their advantages should have leaked by now, if that were the case. Sandbagging isn't really that easy as going off throttle and braking early than usual to add a few seconds to your lap-time to fool the competition. its actually a big ask from the drivers unless they are managing that via engine and throttle mapping...By the way, im not too sure about this, but are the rules supposed to be shaken up for the 2016 season? and most importantly will Toyota have a ts050 lined up for next season or roll the ts040.

[Deleted]

^ Updated regs are for 2017 so everything is just evolution for next year

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Chiana

^ Updated regs are for 2017 so everything is just evolution for next year

Well then, No questions asked, Toyota are going to NEED a different powertrain and unquestionably the 8MJ option. I dont even know if they have FRIC suspension but that's whats giving Audi the advantage this year

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Toyotats03OUS

What are the chances that toyota might be BSing a lil bit ?what if they dont want to show what they got until le mans?what if they are just letting the competition feel confident of what they have and they (toyota) are just hiding and playing the acting game....i mean think about it , if you show what you got now ,,it is going to give a chance to the competition to adjust and get better. but if you play your card right and and make the right move at the right time,it is on...there is that rumor of the 1:36 at paul,,,"i know there is no solid prove,," but the rumor is there....toyota won the championship last year,but what they really want is le mans and giving up a few races for the big price is nothing to them,,i like to believe the that is what is really going on,,maybe not, maybe they really messed up ,,time will tell...

yes, everyone may be holding something back till Le Mans, but as others have said, Silverstone is a different track than Le Mans. All the teams will deploy a different aerodynamic setup for Le Mans (and possibly Spa) so we will have to see what everyone brings to Spa before we really get into the details of who is lagging in what area.

[Deleted]

Now this is what you call sandbagging, 2010

Spa 1000KM Q
1) Peugeot 1:57.884
2) Audi 1:58.519
3) Peugeot 1:59.421
4) Oreca Peugeot 1:59.623
5) Audi 1:59.707
6) Audi 1:59.795
7) Peugeot 1:59.989

Le Mans 2010 Q
1) Peugeot 3:19.711
2) Peugeot 3:20.317
3) Peugeot 3:20.325
4) Oreca Peugeot 3:21.129
5) Audi 3:21.981
6) Audi 3:22.176
7) Audi 3:23.605

After first quali day it was even worse, like 4-5 second gaps

[TF110]

Last year, Toyota only used the 'high downforce' package at Silverstone. I think that says something about that track's unique nature. Next year will be a different hybrid system. I wonder if the TS040 designation will stay on until 2017. I'd imagine so since the rules should require a new generation of car and then we'll see a TS050(?) most likely.

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Not sure I noticed big understeer, but I did think the Toyota looked more on edge at Silverstone than the others. Moving around more in the turns. The Audi was very impressive, nothing dramatic from Porsche and noticeably slower through the turns.

It was me or the Toyota sounded with a higher pitch than last year?

[Adam43]

I don't know. I went to both, but can't really remember.

[Hawkwood]

I'm not really up on the latest specs of cars etc, so I don't really come into these threads, but just thought I'd let you know what a couple of Toyota engineers told me and my brother at Silverstone (after the post-race scrutineering).

We originally asked them about what downforce package was being used, but they glossed over that and started talking about just how cheap the Toyota higher-ups were doing everything, wishing that like Porsche and Audi they had some money to use and that they are running last year's car.
They were quite envious of Porsche and "that other lot" spending masses on brand new cars.
But they seemed not to be too worried about Porsche just yet (apparently Porsche will continue to be less of a threat as races go on due to their energy recovery system), but they said the were seriously worried about Audi.
Also, they are still hurt and angry that they didn't win Le Mans last year, but they don't seem confident of being able to put if right.

[Articus]

Interesting! Worry about "the other lot" would be accurate. Can anything stop the E-Trons this year other than themselves?

[TF110]

Wow, never heard of them complaining about running an old car. Besides, we already know theyre using last year's "car", they said it was the same chassis. Audi are using the same chassis as well. Both had to have new crash tests done because of the revisions made. I bet theyre worried about all their competition. Every team should be. If not, thats being cocky and no team should rest on their laurels.

Maybe next year the budget will go up with Toyota's focus on racing as the forefront to their car sales. Plus the fact they'll be renamed as Toyota Gazoo Racing and running a new type of hybrid system.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

We originally asked them about what downforce package was being used, but they glossed over that and started talking about just how cheap the Toyota higher-ups were doing everything, wishing that like Porsche and Audi they had some money to use and that they are running last year's car. They were quite envious of Porsche and "that other lot" spending masses on brand new cars.
But they seemed not to be too worried about Porsche just yet (apparently Porsche will continue to be less of a threat as races go on due to their energy recovery system), but they said the were seriously worried about Audi. Also, they are still hurt and angry that they didn't win Le Mans last year, but they don't seem confident of being able to put if right.

Honestly I think we saw the beginnings of this frustration and disappointment after last year's race, with the bru-ha-ha over the rotati-wing and Rob Leupen's comments. Last year was Toyota's race to lose and unfortunately they did.

It is interesting to hear about their relative dismissal of Porsche; I would have thought that the Tilkedromes would suit both them and Toyota moreso than Audi.

Originally Posted by TF110

Maybe next year the budget will go up with Toyota's focus on racing as the forefront to their car sales. Plus the fact they'll be renamed as Toyota Gazoo Racing and running a new type of hybrid system.

As much as I don't want to see TMG in the doldrums there may be a silver lining if it helped to persuade TMC to hand over some more cash. They're doing a great job with a significantly lower budget, but ultimately there comes a time when you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

Originally Posted by Articus

Interesting! Worry about "the other lot" would be accurate. Can anything stop the E-Trons this year other than themselves?

Mind, it could also stop the TS040 as well...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Honestly I think we saw the beginnings of this frustration and disappointment after last year's race, with the bru-ha-ha over the rotati-wing and Rob Leupen's comments. Last year was Toyota's race to lose and unfortunately they did.

It is interesting to hear about their relative dismissal of Porsche; I would have thought that the Tilkedromes would suit both them and Toyota moreso than Audi.



As much as I don't want to see TMG in the doldrums there may be a silver lining if it helped to persuade TMC to hand over some more cash. They're doing a great job with a significantly lower budget, but ultimately there comes a time when you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.





Mind, it could also stop the TS040 as well...

I think people are jumping to conclusions based on one race and some comments weve heard before concerning the car. Theres no reason to think a small budget will last forever. We know it wont thanks to outlets like dsc, and Toyota have said the new focus is putting racing first.

Im looking forward to Spa to see what their low-drag package is capable of. It seemed fast in top end at Ricard, so I have a good feeling.

[Starfish Primer]

One race not wining and Toyota is dead? My biggest criticism of Toyota is just bringing 2 cars to Le Mans (one crashes, one breaks, one wins...) but they´ll be there, I´m sure. Even in 2013 with a car behind Audi they were pushing in the morning.

[Articus]

I cannot wait to find out who has the goods for Le Mans.

[cokata]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

One race not wining and Toyota is dead? My biggest criticism of Toyota is just bringing 2 cars to Le Mans (one crashes, one breaks, one wins...) but they´ll be there, I´m sure. Even in 2013 with a car behind Audi they were pushing in the morning.

They were 3-4 seconds per lap slower than the audis in the dry. The only that kept them close (if you count a lap back as being close) is that it was raining frequently and they were quicker in the wet for some reason, and they had a flawless running with 0 incidents and technical issues. If the weather was like in '14 they would have been 3 or more laps behind.

[TF110]

There were cautions in '13 that worked against Toyota's hopeful strategy of being able to go further per stint. But thats the past, this is 2015. Even though they werent so fast in Silverstone, they still had potential of doing a 1:39.7 (but for traffic) in qualifying at an unfavorable track. So when they hit tracks with lots of hard braking, theyre full potential should be really fast.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

But they seemed not to be too worried about Porsche just yet (apparently Porsche will continue to be less of a threat as races go on due to their energy recovery system), but they said the were seriously worried about Audi.

I'm struggling to understand what they meant by this: If they were referring to Porsche's battery system, then is it not true that Toyota will be going to a battery system similar to Porsche's next year? Is it not strange to opt to go to a similar system if they consider it to be "non- threatening"?
If they are talking about Porsche being in the 8MJ class, then Toyota is also working on joining the 8 MJ class next year, so it makes no sense.
To not be too worried about a team (albeit two different cars) that won the last race of the season, had 50% of the poles in last years championship and got pole in the first race of this year's championship and came second only to Audi in the first race, seems to me to be disingenuous ( and to be honest a little disrespectful) at the very least.
Why would Porsche become less of a threat as races go on? There was certainly no indication of this at Silverstone (The worst track for Porsche in the championship), and I still have to read/hear from any of the Porsche drivers or engineers complaining about their system not working properly as the race go on.
Porsche weak point seems to be with there tire-wear, not their hybrid system.
If by all of this what they were really trying to say is that they are benchmarking against Audi rather than Porsche, then I can fully understand that. Porsche are doing the same. The difference is that Porsche are doing that without disrespecting Toyota.