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Old 17 Aug 2004, 12:14 (Ref:1069224)   #276
Alain HACHE
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Alain HACHE should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hello Allen
since a long time I heard and read that Jo Bonnier's car #8 was HU02 but its not so old that I am sure about . Please look the roll over-hoop bars of the 2 Le Mans cars .
Car #7 is differnet than #8 . The junction of the 2 diagonals reinforcements are not the sames because ( dixit Yvan Mahé) Hu 01 got an additionnal bar just up the "passager" place and Hu 02 after a complete work on the chassis got a new roll over-hoop bar.
Pictures are on the way to your web site
bye bye
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Old 17 Aug 2004, 22:22 (Ref:1069870)   #277
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Hi Alain

I agree completely with the observable differences between HU01 and HU02 and I have a pair of matching pictures of the two cars from the BOAC race that I will scan shortly. However, do we know for certain which car was HU01 and which was HU02?

Allen
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Old 18 Aug 2004, 12:33 (Ref:1070413)   #278
Alain HACHE
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hello Allen
At BOAC race car #3 was HU01 and #4 was HU02 . It will be very usefull for me to see your pictures . I readed but I dont remeber where that Fia ,just before this race,change some regulations and the teams must have a part of bonnet after rear wheels (maybe in Sport Auto magasine).I will send to you others pictures.
best regards
Alain
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Old 18 Aug 2004, 12:38 (Ref:1070423)   #279
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Thanks Alain

How do you know that #3 was HU01 and #4 was HU02. Were the respective chassis numbers reported anywhere at any point in 1972?

Allen
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Old 18 Aug 2004, 17:22 (Ref:1070697)   #280
Alain HACHE
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Allen
I own a picture of the start of the race and the difference on roll over-hoop bat is evident .
You will get it soon .
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 08:10 (Ref:1072367)   #281
Alain HACHE
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hello
I visited yesterday in Le Mans the Sarthe archives and look on local newspapers Le Maine Libre and Ouest France of June 1972 .
In these two newspapers I readed that Guy Edwards entered 2 cars : a Lola T290 # 23 and a T280 # 66 !
These cars was not only on the entry list because ACO invited G Edwards to the scrutennings the 7 of June at 10H50 for the T290 and 11 H for T280 .For practice the T280 was in substitute list .
G Edwards did'nt came ....
Sure that he owned a T290 but a T280 ???
does somebody know anything about ?
bests regards
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 08:24 (Ref:1072375)   #282
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LM entry lists

This site seems very well researched and often has photo's

The 72 entry list also shows the 2 Bonnier/Von Wendt 280's and one from Zinto Racing. None raced
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 08:49 (Ref:1072390)   #283
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Alain,

Neither of Edwards' cars turned up at LM72, so they were in the entry list only. I would guess that ACO's scrutineering schedule is done at some point before the start of the LM "week", hence they would be unaware if the cars would be present or not. Edwards 2-litre entry was "taken over" by Brian Robinson according to Autosport. He never had a T280, wishful thinking perhaps.

Not wanting to be a killjoy , but I would also be slightly wary of the site's data that Nordic referenced - it seems to be a direct copy of Martin Krejci's old site, which now appears on wspr-racing.com. Some of the other years on that site have the same question marks & notation that Martin used some years ago.

In terms of the being sure of which chassis Bonnier raced, the only definite references I have (from Autosport), are:
BA 1000:Bonnier raced HU1, larrousse/Craft raced HU2
Sebring: one car only, HU2 (which given the timing of the events, means that Bonnier used HU1 at the LM test day, and won the 4 hours with it)
Spa: Larrousse/de Fierlant in HU2

So any photo comparisons of the LM chassis with these known chassis may be the thing...

Last edited by Jeremy Jackson; 20 Aug 2004 at 08:57.
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 10:08 (Ref:1072465)   #284
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
...In terms of the being sure of which chassis Bonnier raced, the only definite references I have (from Autosport), are:
BA 1000:Bonnier raced HU1, larrousse/Craft raced HU2
Sebring: one car only, HU2 (which given the timing of the events, means that Bonnier used HU1 at the LM test day, and won the 4 hours with it)
Spa: Larrousse/de Fierlant in HU2

So any photo comparisons of the LM chassis with these known chassis may be the thing...
THanks for this. Up to Le Mans, the cars were very easy to tell apart as the cockpit surround was black on one car and not on the other (as well as the roll-hoop differences that I can't always see on the pictures I have so far). I'm at work at the moment but when I get home I'll see if the pictures Alain has sent me include BA, Spa or Sebring.

Allen
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 12:59 (Ref:1072673)   #285
Alain HACHE
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Allen ,
thats Brands Hatch pictures I sended to you in the last e-mail .
For the 2 colours of roll-over hoop bar I think that was only to make a difference between the 2 cars at Mulsanne for the signals crew .
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 13:22 (Ref:1072696)   #286
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Jeremy,
I don't think you are killjoy,but sure that when you got an invitation from ACO for scruteeniring before 24 H you don't have only send a letter to hope to race , but a serious dossier with a minimum of infos like chassis numbers . Yes Edwards did'nt race but all the ways are interessant to explore . To continue this assertion ACO
got before scruteeniring an condidature to enter a Ferrari
312 P from a private team ,but the car was not call for scruteeniring .To be back on T280 maybe was a deal Edwards/
somebody (Bonnier or other)....A car was free before LM
and was a week after entered at Estoril .
all the best for you Jeremy
Alain
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 14:03 (Ref:1072755)   #287
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Alain,

I think we're probably in agreement here - I've no doubt that paperwork for Edwards' entry would have been filed with the ACO, including chassis no. etc., on the basis that the car would be available. However in reality, the car was not present at LM, and as you say, was probably the chassis destined for Gaspar.

Best regards

Jeremy

Last edited by Jeremy Jackson; 20 Aug 2004 at 14:04.
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 14:19 (Ref:1072780)   #288
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In my list of chassis from Autosport, I omitted the crucial point!

The car at Watkins Glen at the end of the season was chassis no. 1.
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 14:33 (Ref:1072791)   #289
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Jeremy
other crucial point : after a talk at LM Classic with Y Mahé its sure that Rouveyran car was HU 01 .
Other crucial point : whats happen with the T290 HU 001 , this car was owned by Jo Bonnier team and was at P Ricard practice with T280 HU01 but after no sound about this !
do you know something ?
other ask : how to put pictures here ?
some french :cordialement
Alain
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 14:52 (Ref:1072814)   #290
Alain HACHE
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recapitulate 1972 chassis used by Bonnier team :

HU 01 HU 02

P Ricard practice *
(dec 1971)

Buenos aires #14 #12
Daytona #14 #12
LM 4 hours # 7
Sebring #12
Brands Hatch # 3 # 4
Monza # 4 # 5
Spa # 8
Dijon test ? ?
Le Mans # 7 # 8
Zeltweg # 9
W Glen #90

chassis used in Interserie are unknow
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Old 20 Aug 2004, 16:28 (Ref:1072904)   #291
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
In my list of chassis from Autosport, I omitted the crucial point!

The car at Watkins Glen at the end of the season was chassis no. 1.
That's what I was after. Prof that it was HU2 that was wrecked. Excellent!
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Old 24 Aug 2004, 21:26 (Ref:1076525)   #292
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Hello !
We just saw that you were talking about LM Classic. Here are the Lola's chassis numbers we've got, we do have some pictures of the chassis plates... (One of them has been removed by the owner as he does not want it to be stolen)
Grid - Race Number - Type - year - Chassis number
6 15 LOLA T290 1972 HU 22
6 24 LOLA T292 1973 HU 54
6 30 LOLA T286 1976 HU 286-7
6 33 LOLA T296 1974 FIA 78 01
6 38 LOLA T290 1972 HU 17
6 53 LOLA T294 1974 HU 66
6 57 LOLA T280 1972 ??
6 61 LOLA T290 1972 ??
6 62 LOLA T294 1974 HU 70
You'll notice that, for a meeting supposed to accept only historic cars, one of them was a complete recreation builded in... 2004!
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Old 30 Aug 2004, 08:29 (Ref:1081270)   #293
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Quote:
Originally posted by coyotes
You'll notice that, for a meeting supposed to accept only historic cars, one of them was a complete recreation builded in... 2004!
Hi coyotes.

Sorry if I'm being dense but which is the recreation?

Regards

Allen
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Old 30 Aug 2004, 08:45 (Ref:1081283)   #294
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I've just browsed through the ACO pictures mention above and the #57 Mahé car looks nothing like either of the two Blaton cars from the auction in 1999.

Alain - did Yvan Mahé tell you where he bought his car?

Allen
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Old 30 Aug 2004, 09:26 (Ref:1081314)   #295
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I have just updated my Lola T280 page with recent posts and with some pictures purchased from Ted Walker. These are the two Bonnier cars at Brands in April 1972 and the Lord car at Silverstone in 1976.

Enjoy!

Allen
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Old 30 Aug 2004, 10:42 (Ref:1081364)   #296
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What an intresting read, these cars really do have a tangled web.

For your info, I have had to reload the thundersports image as it got 'lost' so the link does not work.
the new address is
Lola
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Old 21 Dec 2004, 17:31 (Ref:1185162)   #297
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I know this post is a bit late!
But I have some more info on the T280 chassis saga.
Is there any one out there?
We have T280-5 which was supplied to the Bonnier team after La Fosse crashed the car (280-2) at Kyalami. However the car was not badly damaged acording to an eyewitness.
So it is logical to assume that Bonnier died in 280-1, however I know someone in the states who claims he has that car!
As far as the Blaton cars, he had chassis 282-6 ex La Fosse and another car which was a total replica, built up as a spare car, and the chassis plate with the no 286-7 as shown in the photo's is not an original Lola (1972) plate.
I have some more information but I need to check it out with some of the old workers at the factory in 1972.
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Old 21 Dec 2004, 17:59 (Ref:1185185)   #298
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Welcome Chris

I did get your email the other day but haven't had a chance to phone you.

Can you tell us where the two Blaton cars are now - which one has he kept? And I suppose I should ask if the new owner of the replica knows it's a replica .

Also, to fill in some of the many gaps, what do you know of the history of T280-5 between Bonnier and yourself? It may explain one or more of the mystery entities.

And welcome to the HU1-or-HU2 debate. You're just about to learn more than you wanted to about the shape of roll hoops!

Thanks

Allen
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Old 21 Dec 2004, 18:22 (Ref:1185207)   #299
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The genuine 282-6 (with black roll hoop) was sold to the US I don't know the owners name, but i am checking.
The replica was sold into France! I think they know....
I know that 280-5 was surposedly the first chassis to have the symetrical hoop and was the the same spec as the 282 chassis.
But the pictures of the bonnier cars at Le Mans tells a different story, I am checking these details with some of my old contacts from the factory.
The history of the car (280-5) after Bonnier after reading this is now even more of a mystery!

Regards Chris
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Old 21 Dec 2004, 18:58 (Ref:1185233)   #300
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286-7 is here: www.equipeeurope.com/news.php3
Regards.
phdm
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