Is F1 GP any better?

waz29 · 15 Mar 2006, 19:39 (Ref:1549731)

So with the changes is F1 GP any better for it, or is it still just roundy roundy over tech cars, and races won or lost on a pit stop. Is A1 GP going to take the lime light over the next few years as lets face it - they race, and there is more action in 1 A1 race than in half a season of F1.
I used to be an F1 fan but the more i watch A1 the better it gets.
Any one else 'seeing the light?' or why are you sticking with F1?

TheNewBob · 15 Mar 2006, 19:42 (Ref:1549734)

Personally given a choice of F1 or A1 I'd generally choose neither! There are much better forms of motorsport in my view. However that's another story.

I think it's maybe too early to say if F1 is any better this year. Bahrain was fairly entertaining, but from time to time we do get the odd race that is better than others, and at the same time it was the first race of the year. I'd say wait until round 4 or 5 before making such judgements.

The signs for F1 are good, though...

waz29 · 15 Mar 2006, 19:46 (Ref:1549737)

what! i'll have to stay awake that long

Bluewolf · 15 Mar 2006, 19:50 (Ref:1549740)

I love F1 but A1 GP I think has a built in advantage and that is accessing peoples nationalism. Instead of just rooting for a driver you can root for your country -- If next year France doesn't have the series by the throat and it's anyones game, its going to be really exciting -- One thing though -- The A1 cars look a bit too short to me - does anyone have the tech specs on those machines???

pink69 · 15 Mar 2006, 19:52 (Ref:1549741)

Well, If the Bahrain GP is anything to go by, its a massive improvement on last year! We have overtaking, not just Kimi coming from the back of the grid, like normal!

4 Teams in with a shout of winning races and privateer teams being able to put on over the works boys. (Williams and RBR vs BMW and Toyota)

Silk Cut Jaguar · 15 Mar 2006, 21:17 (Ref:1549817)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

I love F1 but A1 GP I think has a built in advantage and that is accessing peoples nationalism.

That's the one thing I've never been able to buy into where A1 is concerned. It's a novel idea, but the whole thing seems a little forced too me.

Look around any racing grandstand and there are national flags flying all over the place, fans have always gravitated towards their national heroes and teams within motorsport (just look at how fanatical the Dutch are) so I don't think A1's selling point has really added much to the sport as a whole.

I like A1, but I still find F1 more entertaining as the driving standards are higher and there's generally a lot more to absorb over a race distance.

Matski · 15 Mar 2006, 22:50 (Ref:1549900)

I don't think A1 and F1 are comparable really. A1 is closer because the cars are virtually identical. That gives for closer racing. But a big part of F1, whether Mosely likes it or not, is TECHNOLOGY - half the competition is about who can build the best car, and thats what I love about F1.

It's always better when you've got someone to cheer on, in any sport, so I think following your own nation is great. I'm a BMW man through and through - If they've got a car in it, I'll support them at it! When I watch NASCAR I always support the number 6 car, whoever it may be... just so I've got someone to cheer on through out the race (why 6? 'cos my cars on old BMW 6 series!)

ggreen29 · 15 Mar 2006, 23:10 (Ref:1549912)

Don't we still have the problem of most passes occuring during pit stops? For example, once Kimi passed all the junior varsity runners, didn't he progress primarily as other pitted?

MRJUCY · 15 Mar 2006, 23:48 (Ref:1549930)

F1 will always be bigger then A1, one make series aren't as captivating really & people want to see the best drivers & teams not has beens & kids looking for a stepping stone. Don't get me wrong tho I do like A1 & hope it all the best that's just how I see it.

Jukebox · 16 Mar 2006, 00:05 (Ref:1549941)

I watch both as both have teams that i root for....keeps me occupied all year round

BootsOntheSide · 16 Mar 2006, 12:12 (Ref:1550189)

As it stands A1 may have a lot of action, but F1 has far more prestige and talent invovled in it - not only the drivers, but the behind the scenes people.

Jordi · 16 Mar 2006, 13:32 (Ref:1550231)

You know, in the end motor racing, as a whole, doesn't have that much passing...
All series have great races and sleepers...

SALEEN S7R · 16 Mar 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1550246)

Personally I like both F1 and A1 GP, both series offer differnt things. A1 GP is more for the racing fans as you generally get wheel to wheel action and the best driver normally wins, the cars and the teams are not such a big factor as it is with Formula One. Formula One however is the pinnacle of motorsport in terms of racing car technology and speed and whilst the racing isnt quite as close generally speaking as it is in other series when you do get good close racing in F1 nothing tops it. IMO.

That said, neither series are my favourite single seater series for varying reasons. GP2 is my personal favourite, the cars are faster than those of A1 GP by around 6 seconds a lap now that the cars have been upgraded and they are racing on slicks and the racing I think will be just as close as last year, the A1 cars are a little on the slow side for my taste but GP2 cars are a fair bit faster and the racing is still as close as what you get in A1 GP. GP2 also has the advantage of racing on what IMO is generally better circuits. F1 isnt my personal favourite purley down to the lack of overtaking, if the closeness of the racing ever gets back to how it was in say the mid to late 90s however my opinion may well change.

waz29 · 16 Mar 2006, 14:45 (Ref:1550259)

Thanks Guys, there have been some interesting posts there, I'm Glad everyone took it how it was meant and not as an 'attack' on F1 GP.
I think this weekends will have more of an attraction as it the biggest race factor may get to play a part the 'weather'.

Mr V · 16 Mar 2006, 15:16 (Ref:1550276)

Quote:

Originally Posted by waz29

they race, and there is more action in 1 A1 race than in half a season of F1.

Although i enjoy A1, the reason for so much excitement is because it's, at times, very amaturish (sp??).

The signs from Bahrain is that it's still exciting.

Suze · 16 Mar 2006, 15:35 (Ref:1550293)

F1 & A1 are completely different things, I don't agree in comparing them, however....

F1 has history. A1 doesn't, yet. The technology in F1 is completely different to A1 - F1 is constantly pushing and striving forward with new and novel ideas whereas A1 is using an older chassis - I'm not saying they're not trying to improve, but it is slightly different.

The concept of racing is different - there's been many discussions recently but F1 is more or less about who's quickest over one race distance - A1 obviously has the two races, the sprint and the feature race - which is a different concept to F1. They also have the boost button which brings in a slightly different tactical element.

In terms of lasting, F1 obviously has this little bit of who-ha over the Concorde agreement. Personally now, I don't see A1 lasting. From a marketing and PR point of view A1GP is a great idea - pitting country against country is going to get fans of each country backing their team (in most cases). F1 isn't like that. Merchandise and things makes a lot of money for both series, A1 may have an advantage to appealing to nationalities, but F1 has the history and pedigree behind it and the constructors.

Personally, if I had to choose? F1, though the costs of seeing A1GP is cheaper.

curveball · 16 Mar 2006, 15:53 (Ref:1550307)

Overall, I thought the first race this year was more exciting (in terms of the whole weekend) than anything last year. I still have issues with certain things, but for me, its better.

Schummy · 16 Mar 2006, 21:18 (Ref:1550571)

By the way... Kimi just overtook about four cars (not counting pit stops and retirements), according to lap chart. If in this extreme case of one of the fastest drivers/cars starting last and arriving in 3rd he just pass 4 cars in 57 laps (a rate of about 1 car every 22 mins!) then there is a problem somewhere in terms of show.

The problem, IMO, is not the lack of passing in itself, but the lack of likely possibility of passing between comparable cars. Last year's Imola was (for me) a pitiful demo of this principle. Alonso did well but in fact Ferrari's pace was vastly faster. Another supposedly "classic" was Senna-Mansell "fight" in Monaco'92 (I think). Ayrton just blocked Nigel, he was completely slower than that "magic" Williams, in my eyes NM was just "robbed" of that win just by F1 lack of realistic opportunity of overtaking in Monaco.

We have watched some GPs where two drivers "fight" for the lead. Most of time both of drivers go just in train formation (Bahrain) without any realistic attemtp to overtake yet people get excited about it and claim it was a great race

I suppose if they watch a MotoGP or Touring Car race the will get an infart

Year ago, in its golden time, CART was like a dream for me. Sometimes not much overtaking happened, but one was excited because you knew passing other car was likely. The same for MotoGP ot WTC and others.

In the last year, though, I felt F1 was better as a show. F1 has been almost always close in terms of pace, actually closer than most of other racing forms, but it is not enough. Lately the lack of a dominant car has done well (as always in F1). They have to ban the best car every season!

Flat12-Aircool · 16 Mar 2006, 23:23 (Ref:1550649)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schummy

Another supposedly "classic" was Senna-Mansell "fight" in Monaco'92 (I think). Ayrton just blocked Nigel, he was completely slower than that "magic" Williams, in my eyes NM was just "robbed" of that win just by F1 lack of realistic opportunity of overtaking in Monaco.

I remember watching that live, I could barely take my eyes off the screen!

Yes I was really disappointed afterwards that Mansell was seemingly robbed, but I was too young to appreciate how well Senna played that situation. Nowadays I can look back a see what a good bit of defensive driving it was by Senna to keep the lead for those last few laps.

I guess its easy to look back and think that there was more overtaking years ago than there is today, but I'm not really that sure. What I can remember is that the real fun used to start when they we're overtaking packs of 2 or 3 Back-markers, which is somewhat spoiled today by Draconian blue flag rules.

Suze · 16 Mar 2006, 23:35 (Ref:1550660)

There's an Alesi / Senna one too from Phoenix, USA GP, don't remember the year - personally I thought that was great.

It's completely different to A1. There's not that pedigree, that history, and there never will be - in comparison.

Smurfer · 17 Mar 2006, 11:14 (Ref:1550978)

I thought the qualifying and race were much better. Has upped my interest again.

Matski · 17 Mar 2006, 19:24 (Ref:1551379)

I believe that if you are in a faster car and you want to overtake - you can.

You can force the car in front (or behind) into errors, or just have a good ole' dive up the inside.

The driver wants to finish the race, and is prepated to settle for lower position
vs.
The spectator wanting to see a good race!

the problem isn't the format.. it's the drivers. I know thats an arrogant thing to say - but look at A1, the drivers are prepared to have bit of a stab, maybe they get it wrong, but it's better to watch.

Kirk · 17 Mar 2006, 20:34 (Ref:1551437)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Personally I like both F1 and A1 GP, both series offer differnt things. A1 GP is more for the racing fans as you generally get wheel to wheel action and the best driver normally wins, the cars and the teams are not such a big factor as it is with Formula One. Formula One however is the pinnacle of motorsport in terms of racing car technology and speed and whilst the racing isnt quite as close generally speaking as it is in other series when you do get good close racing in F1 nothing tops it. IMO.

That said, neither series are my favourite single seater series for varying reasons. GP2 is my personal favourite, the cars are faster than those of A1 GP by around 6 seconds a lap now that the cars have been upgraded and they are racing on slicks and the racing I think will be just as close as last year, the A1 cars are a little on the slow side for my taste but GP2 cars are a fair bit faster and the racing is still as close as what you get in A1 GP. GP2 also has the advantage of racing on what IMO is generally better circuits. F1 isnt my personal favourite purley down to the lack of overtaking, if the closeness of the racing ever gets back to how it was in say the mid to late 90s however my opinion may well change.

Over here in NA, the A1 series gets no coverage whatsoever and GP2, well ... Sunday morning usually well before dawn. Of what I've seen of GP2, it is quite entertaining. And by the sounds of it, A1 can be exciting as well. I'd like to catch some of it.

As for F1, probably the best thing for it would be for A1 to gain popularity to the point where the powers to be in F1 feel a change is a necessity to keep fans attention and for the health of the sport. In particular new fans. F1 has been slow to respond to concerns, highlighted by gargantuan team budgets and lack of overtaking on the grid. Baby steps have been taken, where large strides are necessary, imho.

Schummy · 18 Mar 2006, 04:43 (Ref:1551651)

I think I agree with Kirk's view about F1 (spectators) profitting from A1's eventual success.

One thing I regret (with current FIA) is the lack the any global alternative to F1 (in circuit racing). Sport-prototype racing was in 70s and 80s a serious branch of top motorsport, today emphatically it is not. The only residue that remains is a gem: 24h of Le Mans with tons of spectators and big budget from some heavy makers.

Touring Car is coming back again but I suspect it will not be allowed a lot of wind to compete in the market of F1 (conspiranoia?)

Even F2 (GP2) could be a valid competition for F1 but not now where is just a pet formula controlled by F1 powers (lol, it is the opposite to "competition", isn't it?). By the moment GP2 is entertaining, but it will never be allowed to threat F1.

Without alternative, F1 live in a sort of niche (factual monopoly of top level global car racing), but if things go bad and they don't react fast enough, then the crash can be really big. Luckily GPs looks more entertaining lately, but I don't know if this is a pattern of a fluke.

CamF1 · 18 Mar 2006, 08:40 (Ref:1551701)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matski

the problem isn't the format.. it's the drivers. I know thats an arrogant thing to say - but look at A1, the drivers are prepared to have bit of a stab, maybe they get it wrong, but it's better to watch.

We can blame the FIA, Bernie, the drivers or 'F1' but at the end of the day we are partly responsible for F1 being what it is.