Jason Plato, wrong or right

[Retired]

I look in on this Forum from time to time as I spent a lot of years involved in this type of Racing.

It is much more difficult and skillful to overtake a similar performance car without contact, than it is with contact.

Drivers who use these type of tactics, in my opinion, are drivers who know they are not as skillful as others and have to use brute force and ignorance to prevail and then blame others after the event.

If the Clerks of the Course do not stamp down on it, it will get worse until someone is really hurt. In my day we would have been terrified of bringing a damaged car back after the race, and if we did so, we would probably have been sacked.

It is hard to believe that some of these drivers are actually paid!

John Fitzpatrick

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by johnfitzuk

I look in on this Forum from time to time as I spent a lot of years involved in this type of Racing.

It is much more difficult and skillful to overtake a similar performance car without contact, than it is with contact.

Drivers who use these type of tactics, in my opinion, are drivers who know they are not as skillful as others and have to use brute force and ignorance to prevail and then blame others after the event.

If the Clerks of the Course do not stamp down on it, it will get worse until someone is really hurt. In my day we would have been terrified of bringing a damaged car back after the race, and if we did so, we would probably have been sacked.

It is hard to believe that some of these drivers are actually paid!

John Fitzpatrick

Welcome to the forum John, it's a pleasure to see you on here and read your views. I think you are dead right with what you, and many of us on here, are saying; it is ultimately less skillful.

I think you were a little bit more than just 'involved' too but I like your modesty.

Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash

If that's the case then the BTCC's doing a great job at promoting itself. Club racing has the same MDs and CEOs racing around. But does club racing enjoy anywhere near the crowd numbers BTCC generates? Nope, not even close. Club racing's been beyond help for years, whilst BTCC got itself out of a mess following the end of super touring regs.

But I guess that is beyond the point...

I'm not going to bother giving too much of an argument because I feel you don't really understand club racing.

Club racing is ultimately for the competitors. The crowd is a secondary thought. The BTCC enjoys large crowds because it is a national championship, enjoys TV coverage, has a prestigious history and has a lot of money thrown at the promotion of it.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by johnfitzuk

It is hard to believe that some of these drivers are actually paid!

This year I don't think any are paid to drive in the BTCC though

Fantastic to have a real touring car legend on here though. Welcome John !

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to our forum John. Shame it took this to prompt your first post but as someone with extensive experience at the top of the sport, your post is welcome.

As an aside if anyone wants to see touring cars from the 70s and 80s pedalled as they should be, try to get to either a Masters or JD Classics event this season.

[johngee]

A very warm welcome to 10-Tenths John and your view is very relevant from someone with a track record like yours. I hope that you won't be a stranger on here as the season progresses or degenerates, dependant on your point of view.

[johnfitzuk]

Originally Posted by johngee

A very warm welcome to 10-Tenths John and your view is very relevant from someone with a track record like yours. I hope that you won't be a stranger on here as the season progresses or degenerates, dependant on your point of view.

I am sure the series is in good hands

[Burp]

Ive read various things on forums and twitter this week about the WTCC race in spain and how boring it was compaired to the BTCC. I watched it and what I saw was a great race with cars trying to pass with minimal contact. Maybe thats why the majority classed it as boring, there was not much smoke, spins, crashing or bashing. (ive only seen race one so i hope my point is still valid)

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Apology accepted, and offered in return; I was OTT in post 110, sorry.

What's highlighted is the completely different point of view of the fan and the club racer.

I think you have hit the nail right on the head with the final line.

[FIRE]

BTCC without the intentional contact would still be a great series.

[johnny99]

Jason Plato was right, because thats what the series allow's and he's trying 100% to win a race. Don't get me wrong, I'm more of a WTCC fan, but as a many previous poster have said, is known as boring. What drivers get away with in BTCC is crazy. Plato, and many more drivers are only doing what they get away with

John

[pauln]

Couldn't disagree more!

Just because they've been allowed to get away with it up until now doesn't make it right. The answer has to be to enforce penalties that hurt and that means disqualification/grid penalty for next race - as well as piddling fines and points on licences.

As some folks have been bringing in other incidents to muddy discussions, let me be completely clear - I've been talking throughout this thread about the move that took out Newsham.

[FIRE]

It doesn't make it right but drivers (or better: sportsmen, e.g. in football with diving, tackles from behind, ellbows) will allways go to the limit. Governing bodies create rules and if they not undertake action against people who break these rules limits are moving.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Burp

Ive read various things on forums and twitter this week about the WTCC race in spain and how boring it was compaired to the BTCC. I watched it and what I saw was a great race with cars trying to pass with minimal contact. Maybe thats why the majority classed it as boring, there was not much smoke, spins, crashing or bashing. (ive only seen race one so i hope my point is still valid)

No, the WTCC is boring, its a Chevy walkover and Muller is going to do a Loeb on that championship this year.
As soon as you have manufacturers in the sport you have the team as the main focus and team orders start encroaching in and the whole thing becomes less exciting as a result.
Its getting to the point now where there's no reason to watch WTCC race 1 as it'll be a Chevy walkover so you might as well just tune in for race 2 (where highlights of race 1 are also shown in the build up, natch!) to see how long the feel-good story of the independents can hold on before they're inevitably steamrollered by the Chevys.

IMO the WTCC is touring cars done wrongly.
You have manufacturers racing for their own interests on tracks that touring cars(in their current formula at least) have no business being on due to their length and lack of overtaking opportunities.
Add to that lethargic TV direction which does its best to miss what little that does go on and you have a series that is a lot less desirable, to the TV viewer at least, than the BTCC.

I've been off this forum for a good long while and one of the main reasons was the snobbery you get in the BTCC threads.
It seems everyone and his dog likes to get on their high horse and take pot shots at the current BTCC while harking back to whatever era they grew up with fondly.
Perhaps its the same sort of attitude that leads to music fans to abandon bands they care for when they achieve mass popularity and label them as "Sell-outs", who knows?

Its also annoying to see page after page decrying the contact in the series when there are thousands of great overtakes that are ignored.
Well, you know what, there's more contact because the BTCC puts on damn good races, and the law of averages states that because there is more side-by-side racing and overtaking attempts in the BTCC than any other series, of course not all of those moves are accomplished successfully.
To just focus on the shunts is like merely focusing at the part of the iceberg that sticks out above the water and ignoring the huge amount of great racing you get underneath the surface.
You don't get the same kind of reputation for something like the DTM because they plainly don't overtake anywhere that isn't the pit lane, but the series still has its fans.
If you like technically complicated cars parading around between pit windows, good for you, but don't try to sell that to me as better than the BTCC, where the finishing order isn't the same as the grid order!
(Pit stops! There's something else that ruins touring car racing!)

To drag myself back on topic, speaking as a big BTCC fan as much as anything else, it annoys me to see Plato held up as the figurehead of the series because most BTCC fans see him for what he is too.
(apart from a disturbingly vocal group on the official BTCC forum it seems...)

Probably because of his "Star" (don't make me laugh!) quality he gets away with far too much and the amount of whining he did last year about turbos was sickening beyond belief.
I've never seen the winner of a race act with such petulance and lack of class before, but Plato at Oulton Park last year really took the biscuit.

The Brands incident was also ridiculous, it looked like Newsham was on for a feel-good result but bigboy Plato obviously couldn't stand for someone else being in the limelight.
Newsham had no-where to go, as soon as Plato went for the inside Newsham had a choice between moving left and causing an accident with Neal on the inside (which due to the angle would probably have been a big shunt) or moving right and being spun by Plato.
Yet somehow Plato thinks he should've just bowed to his superiority and got out of his lord and master's way....give me a BREAK!

No, please do not use the antics of Jason Plato as a rod to beat the BTCC with, most of us can see through his childish behaviour in and out of the car thankfully.

The penalty was a good start, lets just hope any more nonsense and he'll be sitting out a few races this year.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Its also annoying to see page after page decrying the contact in the series when there are thousands of great overtakes that are ignored.

Hate it when the tv seems to think the highlights is just the crashes

[Burp]

Wow, was that whole post aimed at me? Didnt say the BTCC was bad, I love it just as much as you. But im a touring car fan and enjoyed the wtcc races recently. Yes the Chevys are pretty much unbeatable but its still better than watching Golf or Football (IMO)

If BTCC was on every weekend id prob not have time to see the wtcc races but as I needed my fix over the winter I watched some of last season races and am following this season.

[garcon]

To single Plato out as if he's the worst culprit of the lot is just as blinkered as the fanboys claiming he can do no wrong.

BTCC is enjoying something of a resurgence, with more competitive cars than we've seen for a while. It'd be a shame if that gets lost in the midst of penalties and petty driver feuds.

I think the fact this thread has reached 11 pages owes far more to recent BTCC history and people's ingrained opinions of the main protagonists than the incident itself, which I didn't think was the worst of an eventful weekend by a long chalk.

And just to nail my colours to the mast, I'm not an avid Plato fan but for me it's Matt Neal who's the real pantomime villain, so as long as he doesn't win I'm happy.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Burp

Wow, was that whole post aimed at me? Didnt say the BTCC was bad, I love it just as much as you. But im a touring car fan and enjoyed the wtcc races recently. Yes the Chevys are pretty much unbeatable but its still better than watching Golf or Football (IMO)

If BTCC was on every weekend id prob not have time to see the wtcc races but as I needed my fix over the winter I watched some of last season races and am following this season.

No, not all of it, merely your quoted post was what set me off into a rant at the whole forum snobbery when it comes to the BTCC...apologies!

Originally Posted by garcon

To single Plato out as if he's the worst culprit of the lot is just as blinkered as the fanboys claiming he can do no wrong.

BTCC is enjoying something of a resurgence, with more competitive cars than we've seen for a while. It'd be a shame if that gets lost in the midst of penalties and petty driver feuds.

I think the fact this thread has reached 11 pages owes far more to recent BTCC history and people's ingrained opinions of the main protagonists than the incident itself, which I didn't think was the worst of an eventful weekend by a long chalk.

And just to nail my colours to the mast, I'm not an avid Plato fan but for me it's Matt Neal who's the real pantomime villain, so as long as he doesn't win I'm happy.

I think Matt used to be this way but has calmed down and driven a lot more maturely in recent years.

Even back in the Plato feud years he was in the right 75% of the time, particularly during the infamous "Double punt" at Snetterton for whatever year that was when Jason tried to punt him off at the Bombhole, failed. so lunged at him at the chicane too.
Then there's the slightly less famous ones where Plato got away with outright punting Neal off the road a few times but got away with it
(Knocking into him when Muller was holding everyone up at Knockhill...2005? was a clever one because he knew the focus would be on Yvan, another one I can remember was using Neal as a brake at Druids and pushing him into a BMW and emerging scott free-well until his nose-cam gave away his role in proceedings anyway! )

MN I sense has tried to put all this stuff behind him (yet still will stand up to Plato and call him out if he deserves it-Rockingham last year being one example) but Plato still feels the need to treat him like the enemy and not even bother passing him cleanly when he comes near him on track.

To see Neal as the villain of the piece is skewed reasoning IMO
Plato is the egotistical one who thinks because he's a TV presenter he's more important than anyone else on the grid, Neal is the only one out there that seems to be able to stand up to his crap it seems.

[Burp]

I do tend to aggree with your thoughts on Plato. He appears to act (rightly or wrongly) like a big fish in a small pond.

His recent tweets where every photo he is posing with a can of that stuff made me cringe

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Burp

I do tend to aggree with your thoughts on Plato. He appears to act (rightly or wrongly) like a big fish in a small pond.

And yet he's never made an attempt to go into a big pond (wtcc) because his style wouldn't be welcome.

[Tom Bee]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

And yet he's never made an attempt to go into a big pond (wtcc) because his style wouldn't be welcome.

Well said, Excellent Post!

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

And yet he's never made an attempt to go into a big pond (wtcc) because his style wouldn't be welcome.

WTCC a big pond ... really ? Plato has raced againts all the current top drivers in WTCC and beat them. (top as in non-indies)

Plato never went to WTCC full time because even he thinks it's boring. And all his commercial commitments keep him in the UK (or close to it)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...than-WTCC.html

I quote

"Asked if he would like to drive in the WTCC, he replied enigmatically: “The simple answer is yes – but actually no.”

Chevrolet driver Plato, at the Algarve circuit as an ambassador for the marque, said he would like to take on the world’s best.

But competing around the globe would eat too much into his time and would harm his TV career, his business and family life.

Now the dad of two young kids, he added: “I’m not 21 any more and going around the world on a plane doesn’t float my boat.”

And

"Plato also condemned the world series as “a bit sterile and contrived”.

And he said: “There is no better place than Oulton Park on a sunny Sunday with the BTCC on the track.

“There’s a great vibe in the BTCC paddock – and the racing is better!” "

[McArthur252]

i'm tired of watching Plato and Neal bully their way through the BTCC field, about time one of them got a slap on the wrist. their behaviour on and off the track is pathetic at times.

i will concede though, that it does make good television, i just feel a bit sorry for the other drivers that have to put up with it.

Wonder what plato's choice of topic to moan on will be this year?

[cheapracer]

Maybe if they were in cars with the drive at a bit of weight at the right end they wouldn't be shuffled off so easily ...

Originally Posted by McArthur252

i'm tired of watching Plato and Neal ...

... i just feel a bit sorry for the other drivers that have to put up with it.

So they should be less aggressive, more polite, more forgiving and be at the back of the field letting those you feel sorry for "have a win" sometimes?

[Minicross424]

Bring back Thompson please!!

[SOLARIS_7]

Simply put, Jason Plato had every right to that corner. May I reference back to last year? Gordon Shedden pushed about 10 people out of the way at Brands Hatch, and didn't even get a warning! Newsham needs to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. I'm furious about this penalty, because not only is Jason a great driver, but also a great person. He knows right from wrong.