[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[GasperG]

It will have to be bigger capacity than 2.0, as I understand it they won't be running ERS-H because they will stay on twin axle ERS-K. Not having ERS-H and having a big turbo is not a good idea.

I'm guessing at lest 3.0 engine with smaller turbo, maybe even the same block they are using now?

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by GasperG

It will have to be bigger capacity than 2.0, as I understand it they won't be running ERS-H because they will stay on twin axle ERS-K. Not having ERS-H and having a big turbo is not a good idea.

I'm guessing at lest 3.0 engine with smaller turbo, maybe even the same block they are using now?

Without mentioning the dreaded "b"-word I would expect the same block to be used as well. Increased displacement is to be expected (and makes sense) but going up 50% in one jump seems like a stretch. Perhaps 2.4-2.5L would be enough when combined with twin-axle KERS?

[cokata]

Good they need a TS050 basically. 100% redesign.

[kvenom]

I know it might not be in the cards with their budget and time constraints, but do you think they go with a new aero concept as well? The car has had a similar aero concept since its debut.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by kvenom

I know it might not be in the cards with their budget and time constraints, but do you think they go with a new aero concept as well? The car has had a similar aero concept since its debut.

I guess it depends on whether it's needed.

TMG always had a reputation for having the best aero and I don't think it's what the TS040 is lacking, Wurz commented on how their aero balance through Porsche curves is better than Porsche's...they just lack the punch out of the corners this year.

[kvenom]

It also depends on what engine they stick in, different size dimensions etc..

[TF110]

From super formula's website, the 2L 4 cylinder engines weigh 85kg. They also run to a fuel flow like lmp1. This is the shared engine in Super GT, but called the RI4AG. I wonder if the TS050 engine could be based on this? I think its likely.

[cokata]

Originally Posted by TF110

From super formula's website, the 2L 4 cylinder engines weigh 85kg. They also run to a fuel flow like lmp1. This is the shared engine in Super GT, but called the RI4AG. I wonder if the TS050 engine could be based on this? I think its likely.

Doesn't the superformula engine have VVT/VVL though? Because if it has it will need to be removed because the P1 rules don't allow it. And that's no small modification. They may as well design a new engine from scratch.

Also inline engine are generally not a good configuration for a race car due to their inferior stiffness to a vee engine. That's why Porsche chose a V4 (an otherwise very rarely used engine)

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by cokata

Doesn't the superformula engine have VVT/VVL though? Because if it has it will need to be removed because the P1 rules don't allow it. And that's no small modification. They may as well design a new engine from scratch.

Also inline engine are generally not a good configuration for a race car due to their inferior stiffness to a vee engine. That's why Porsche chose a V4 (an otherwise very rarely used engine)

+1 im sure i have herd that the SF was a VVT engine

[Acid09]

Knowing TMC I'm pretty sure budget constraints will play a huge role so for them to use something existing as base is pretty likely.

[kvenom]

Seems like Wurz might be considering retirement after this season

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119459

[Acid09]

Wow, that would be a huge loss for Toyota.

Maybe not as much from a race-pace point of view but in terms of car development.

This year's most likely disappointing Le Mans for him might be a bad time to base such a decision on, he should at least wait how the TS050 is shaping up.

[kvenom]

They are so far behind its astronomical. 3 seconds slower, Porsche can go longer on fuel and Audi can go longer on tires. You can't afford to sleep when the VAG machine is rolling.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by kvenom

They are so far behind its astronomical. 3 seconds slower, Porsche can go longer on fuel and Audi can go longer on tires. You can't afford to sleep when the VAG machine is rolling.

Maybe this poor showing is what was needed to wake TMC up.

They either give them a proper budget or call it quits, you don't win Le Mans with half-measures, especially not against this kind of competition.

[Skemer]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Maybe this poor showing is what was needed to wake TMC up.

They either give them a proper budget or call it quits, you don't win Le Mans with half-measures, especially not against this kind of competition.

Wouldn't be counting on that.Still not convinced after four years at Le Mans anything is gonna change for the poor chaps at TMG.Next year 2 cars again if they have to design a new drive-train etc.Will be more competitive cars you'd say but will have to wait and see if they can get back on par again next year.

[FIRE]

I hope you are right Acid but I doubt it.

[J Jay]

Davidson's despondent interview just now says it all.

This just isn't good enough

[Acid09]

Well, as expected, the crew on the #1 is simply not the best choice if you're desperate to have a steady and clean race.

Give them a fast car and they'll race the wheels off it but steady & unspectacular is more what the #2 is about.

[Acid09]

Rob Leupen on Eurosport said the new engine is "likely to be smaller in displacement and more compact".

They also see 8MJ as a must for next year, not surprisingly.

[TF110]

The drivetrain development is done in Japan where the hybrid masters are. With the big pr push they were doing for Le Mans this year in Japan, Id think theyre getting more serious about the importance of racing as an advertisment for the brand. Toyoda said as much, so hopefully this means a bit more budget.

On the driver standpoint, the #2 is too slow. Wurz's development skills could still be put to use. But I think they need some fresh faces like Kobayashi in the car. Looked like Conway was fast, but they kept him out of the car at night. If the #1 car didnt have the encounter with another Ferrari, I wonder if theyd still be as far back? They just arent fast enough. Consistent but not there on the pace of Porsche and Audi. Hopefully they make gains over the summer break and even more for next year.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by TF110

The drivetrain development is done in Japan where the hybrid masters are. With the big pr push they were doing for Le Mans this year in Japan, Id think theyre getting more serious about the importance of racing as an advertisment for the brand. Toyoda said as much, so hopefully this means a bit more budget.

On the driver standpoint, the #2 is too slow. Wurz's development skills could still be put to use. But I think they need some fresh faces like Kobayashi in the car. Looked like Conway was fast, but they kept him out of the car at night. If the #1 car didnt have the encounter with another Ferrari, I wonder if theyd still be as far back? They just arent fast enough. Consistent but not there on the pace of Porsche and Audi. Hopefully they make gains over the summer break and even more for next year.

What i struggle to get my head around is why Toyota arent chasing any external sponsors. about 80% of the sponsorship is Toyota and it's sub companies. i can understand most parts for the car can be provided in house, but why arent they actively chasing other sponsors to fund the project. Look at porsche with Redbull and Vodafone

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

. Look at porsche with Redbull and Vodafone

Those are just secondary sponsors at best as well though, it's the same at Porsche than at the other teams - The main sponsors are in-house or suppliers (DMG Mori)

So looks like it's not at easy to attract big-time sponsors as none of the four works teams have them.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Those are just secondary sponsors at best as well though, it's the same at Porsche than at the other teams - The main sponsors are in-house or suppliers (DMG Mori)

So looks like it's not at easy to attract big-time sponsors as none of the four works teams have them.

I think we should we just start a Kickstarter Project to fund the Toyota Effort

[insane014]

If Porsches victory is not Toyota's wake up call I don't know what is. Porsche in its second season is taking up a holy grail while Toyota once again leaves defeated. Defeated mostly by stupid decisions from Japan.

They need to spend money or go home cause otherwise they will just be playing in the midfield. What happened to Toyota last year is what happens once in every five years or so when competitors get saturated and loose track in development. As we can tell once competition gets fierce it all goes back to developing and spending money. They can't expect superhuman achievements from TMG with the smallest budget in LMP class. What an unnecessary throw away year for them.

Third car is a must Toyo!!!

[bentley speed 8]

Salvaged 6th and 8th. It will be a long year for them for sure. I thought they would be closer but it's clear that they are way off the pace