Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Beetle

None of the Middle East is more liberal or conservative than the other - it is one big convoluted, power-flaunting, corrupt, totalitarian, financial, no nonsense, scary hellhole of a place that I would rather not visit.

This first article explains all of the problems with human rights in the UAE alone...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_..._Arab_Emirates

...and this covers LGBT rights, a considerable argument not mentioned in the first article...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_r..._Arab_Emirates

But to some extent, I agree with you - racing is racing, and as long as you are allowed to race and no one will be in mortal danger, then nothing is wrong with it. The country's got its problems, but racing has nothing to do with human rights, unless a driver is a minority that is discriminated against in said country. Otherwise, it's OK.

An interesting read if you guys have the time:

The Dark Side of Dubai

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...i-1664368.html

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Beetle

None of the Middle East is more liberal or conservative than the other - it is one big convoluted, power-flaunting, corrupt, totalitarian, financial, no nonsense, scary hellhole of a place that I would rather not visit.

By that logic all western countries are the same too.

I did actually already scan the first article. Also here in a nutshell:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14703998
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14704229

But to some extent, I agree with you - racing is racing, and as long as you are allowed to race and no one will be in mortal danger, then nothing is wrong with it. The country's got its problems, but racing has nothing to do with human rights, unless a driver is a minority that is discriminated against in said country. Otherwise, it's OK.

Actually that's not what I meant. I've always hated the "sport and politics should not be mixed" because it is such a moronic claim. The second event x gets decided to be put in country y, they gets mixed.

[Maelochs]

Of course, racing in Communist China is accepted, despite the totalitarian regime and its horrible human rights record ... and racing in Russia, a place with those same characteristics, is also accepted without a thought.

Not saying Bahrain or Dubai are nice places for most folks, but I have done human rights work in Russia and China, and I can tell you that for a lot of folks, those are terrible places to be. Race on!

[Matt]

oh jeez, not this topic again.
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137176

[broadrun96]

Can we move on from the blatently agenda driven "information" provided by both sides to justify going to or hating the Middle East? The discussion is pointless here and other than a few here who live there quoting articles that at best can be rarely be described as impartial serves no purpose other than self-congratulatory ego stroking.

[joeb]

There are plenty of places on the internet to discuss Middle East politics, this is a pace to discuss racing, let's keep it that way.

[Breitling24]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Can we move on from the blatently agenda driven "information" provided by both sides to justify going to or hating the Middle East? The discussion is pointless here and other than a few here who live there quoting articles that at best can be rarely be described as impartial serves no purpose other than self-congratulatory ego stroking.

Please, before the NSA flags this forum...

[Thaw Daggerslash]

The Ferrari LMP1 rumour just will not go away will it?

According to this, a decision on a future LMP1 entry will be made this year, and could appear as soon as 2015 if given the go ahead.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/m...3-7519825.html

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Beetle

None of the Middle East is more liberal or conservative than the other - it is one big convoluted, power-flaunting, corrupt, totalitarian, financial, no nonsense, scary hellhole of a place that I would rather not visit

..... I agree ! And its full of despots too .....

[The Badger]

Be great to see Ferrari back ..... Just look at the number of GT2/GT3 458's out there ..... Im sure some of them would happily step up to the table and run a P1 Ferrari , put race history on it . I hope it screams , but somehow doubt it ?

[Maelochs]

An updated 333 sp for P2--A Dallara P2 chassis with a Ferrari motor. Cheaper for the factory then a P1, and more chance to sell some and make money back.

[Acid09]

The return of Ferrari would seal the deal for the WEC to become the legitimate crown of the racing world.

As great as all this is shaping up to be, I'm a little afraid that Ecclestone and the powers in F1 won't let it happen that easily...they wouldn't sit and watch while sports car racing grows stronger than their precious circus.

I hope I'm wrong.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The return of Ferrari would seal the deal for the WEC to become the legitimate crown of the racing world.

As great as all this is shaping up to be, I'm a little afraid that Ecclestone and the powers in F1 won't let it happen that easily...they wouldn't sit and watch while sports car racing grows stronger than their precious circus.

I hope I'm wrong.

History has shown, Your not!








L.P.

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The return of Ferrari would seal the deal for the WEC to become the legitimate crown of the racing world.

As great as all this is shaping up to be, I'm a little afraid that Ecclestone and the powers in F1 won't let it happen that easily...they wouldn't sit and watch while sports car racing grows stronger than their precious circus.

I hope I'm wrong.

Thankfully, at the moment, we have an FIA president in Jean Todt who is aware that there is more to motorsport than just F1. I doubt he'd let that happen.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Acid09

The return of Ferrari would seal the deal for the WEC to become the legitimate crown of the racing world.

As great as all this is shaping up to be, I'm a little afraid that Ecclestone and the powers in F1 won't let it happen that easily...they wouldn't sit and watch while sports car racing grows stronger than their precious circus.

I hope I'm wrong.

There's also still a very long way to go before WEC passes F1 in terms of spectator figures and general interest.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

There's also still a very long way to go before WEC passes F1 in terms of spectator figures and general interest.

The arrival of Ferrari shorten much that way. The duel Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Toyota, Honda and Nissan in LMP1 would generate a lot of spectators and interest.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

There's also still a very long way to go before WEC passes F1 in terms of spectator figures and general interest.

LONG, LONG WAY....I wish it weren't the case...

[TF110]

If Ferrari joins, other marks may be enticed. Porsche is already a shot in the arm. Toyota made it a legitimate championship by joining. If Honda steps up there are 4 manufacturers. Then Nissan may decide to get their lmp program going. Thats healthy competition, but not everyone can win LeMans, so the WEC has to become equally as important imo. That may mean using tracks with significant history and longer than 6 hour races.

[Maelochs]

It would be wonderful if WEC became a stronger, more important series, but taking the races to longer than six hours might not be the best bet financially---more wear-and-tear, but more income?

As a fan, I think every race should be longer (and all the tickets should be free and include airfare and lodging.) But from the point of view of marketing the series and attraxcting new manufacturers, I don't think race length is the issue.

As I see it, to reach the state we both want, where many manufacturers fight hard for each round of the WEC, the series has to become a lot higher-profile (of course more manufacturers would help, in that chicken-egg conundrum,) and I don't think more fans--the die-hards and hard-cores are already there-- are going to get sucked in by longer races.

Things like TV time, have to be considered. A six-hour race is at least seven hours of TV, or maybe four hours if networks do the pre-race/start, and then the end/wrap-up. A nine-hour race is just more time not covered (of course/TV-web mixed coverage is the most likely option.)

To sell it to the factories and the sponsors, it has to be sold to TV too, I think. And I don't think most casual fans are all eager to spend nine or twelve hours watching a race once a month all summer; I don't think most networks want to give up one whole weekend day once a month all summer.

I would be fine with one six-hour race every four or so weeks from March to October--maybe grouped in threes every three weeks then a six-week break and another three, to give teams time to recover.

The main deal as I see it is marketing the series so the manufacturers think they actually have something to gain out of just competing, because obviously with four strong manufacturers the odds of winning are 25 percent---so the series would have to be like F1, where just being there puts you over and above all others.

[TF110]

Not every race. Spa could be an acception, as could Fuji. Even 8 hours or 10 hours or go to the 1000km mark.

[MagVanisher]

If Ferrari joins, either GM or Ford would follow suit in the LMP1 class.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

If Ferrari joins, either GM or Ford would follow suit in the LMP1 class.

And why do you think this? What does an LMP1 Ferrari program have to do with an American LMP1 program? You might as well Nissan, Mercedes, and Chrysler will jump on board, too.

As far as "self-congratulatory ego-stroking", well, I did see the demise of the Indian GP in my crystal ball thread. So you are exactly right... :P

Also, the WEC seem to have published a "Visit São Paulo" advertisement.

http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/s%C3%A...ture_1261.html

Oh, the wonderful world of PR. I wonder if they'll mention on Radio Le Mans or any of the broadcasts about the restructuring and new layout that Interlagos will undergo in the near future...

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by TF110

Even 8 hours or 10 hours or go to the 1000km mark.

You're aware that 1000km is shorter than the current race distance for any race with P1s in, right? I mean, I agree with that distance - for me, that is the classic endurance racing distance - but that wouldn't make much difference to the present.

I've said since this started, if you don't include classic races/circuits in this, it doesn't have the credibility as a series that it needs. China/Bahrain might serve a short-term need, but there's no history there to create the 'brand' that they need to to make it a worthwhile, long-term championship.

And the Ferrari thing won't happen without an external backer; as usual, they'll just be after something from Bernie or the F1 rulemakers.

[helgi]

Still can't see Ferrari in LMP1. Maybe they'll try to bring back Alfa? By 2015 it will produce only RWD cars, will be more sporty. And Alfa don't race anywhere today. It's better to put it into LMP1 I think ->

PS I won't discuss that theme but as a Russian I just can not read that megatons of demagogy and absolute nonsense about "human rights". I can understand who do you mind. That "punk" (really, even hard core punks have never ever heard about it) group which defiled The Cathedral of Christ the Savior acted in a provocative manner in a sacred place not only for Orthodoxes. This cathedral is a memorial to the solders who died in the First National war of 1812. So, what will you do with a punk band who play the ape and blackguarding at Vietnam Veterans Memorial shouting "Yes, you can"???
And I must underline that we can not and will never interfere into private life - everybody can do what he wants in the privacy of his own house. But we are a very traditional society - it's abnormally for us to hear that huge aggressive propaganda of different way of life. How can't you understand, that Russia is not Europe, not Asia. It's a self-sufficient part of World. And has a special culture and way of life. For example, for me, as a Russian, strange to read about prohibitions of wearing crosses in a European country, strange to read about Christians who were convicted for quoting the Bible. These are awful things for me but I have never said that Europe is not worthy to held FIA WEC or DTM on that basis. We, Russians, are very open-minded, while our foreign friends are still behind the Iron Curtain. And not only fans. During "24H of Spa" Mr.Haven had some really unpleasant commentaries on our team, he was almost unstoppable in his mauvais sense of 'humour' telling that "that drivers can not understand" or smth about proper translation. The joke was - it was Mediani at the wheel at that time, an official Ferrari Racing School driver, and the whole team is Baporo - a Spanish one. So, it's better to keep politics far away from sport and respect your opponent's way of life.

[Maelochs]

Pussy Riot didn't "defille" a church, they protested in a church. They didn't smash irreplaceable icons or pour paint on the place. basically all they did was be loud in a church.

Should they be arrested? if they had no permit, sure. Jail time? Maybe a couple days. Fines? Sure---they knowingly broke the law. The ridiculously long sentences some of them were given? Whatever.

human rights? it is not about the "Right to free speech," it is about ridiculously long prison terms which send the message, "Disagree with Putin and suffer until you die." I don't support protesting inside churches--it is just rude to people who want to worship, protest out front--but sure, protest at the Vietnam memorial, why not?

I have personally protested outside the White House. I have also been part of a human rights demonstration in St. Petersburg, Russia. What I didn't do was criticize the Russian government, so nothing bad happened. Seems reasonable that people should be able to protest against the government. Pussy Riot tried to be offensvie, which i don't support, but on the opther hand, the jail terms are ridiculous in view of the fact that absolutely no one was hurt and nothing was damaged.

Best not to use this forum for this discussion, anyway.