ALMS 2012 Discussion

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I disagree. The Porsche RS Spyder is absolutely stunning. The Lola B06's were just plain mean looking. The Ferrari 333SP is beautiful and the Riley & Scott Mk. III is one of my favorite cars ever. The 911 GT1 certainly has to be considered one of the best looking race cars of all time... Surely the mid-80s GTO/GTU cars aren't more attractive in your mind. I understand the Mustang, but the rest aren't that great. The racing was great, and people had access to winning race cars, which is important and something I want.

Regardless, I'm not saying bring those cars back. I'm saying I want sports car racing (prototypes and GTs) that provides that level of entertainment.

Chris

GTO/U/P cars were the best looking ever.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Sellysell

Also the bear said The circuit of americus is looking for sportscar series and alms is not one of them.

WEC most likely--the FIA commissioned the track, and the FIA will share sanctioning of the WEC with the ACO. However, I don't see the WEC there until at least 2013, after the first F1 race to see if it's worthwhile to race sportscars there.

Either that, or they're trying to get Grand Am there to bribe them to allow the WEC to run at Watkins Glen or something like that, but the former possibility is most likely.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

WEC most likely--the FIA commissioned the track, and the FIA will share sanctioning of the WEC with the ACO. However, I don't see the WEC there until at least 2013, after the first F1 race to see if it's worthwhile to race sportscars there.

Surely in FIA thinking having the WEC there before the first F1 race as a kind of trial run would make more sense?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Danske

Woohoo! What do I win?

Dagys later corrected much that the McLaren is just a rumour, not that he is stating it as fact.

Unlimited would be a more fitting name, if they were a re-creation run of 8.3l M8F's... now I could enjoy that, even as a spec series.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Dagys later corrected much that the McLaren is just a rumour, not that he is stating it as fact.

It certainly leaves a lot of open questions- McLaren so far have said that they intend to limit production of the GT3 car, and the initial batch of 20 cars sold for 2012 are all allocated. So bearing in mind the number of cars needed to have a viable grid, where do they come from?.
http://mclarengt.com/news-and-events/details/id/14

If it is the MP4-12C, maybe they'll be much coser to production cars than GT3 versions?

No, on balance, I think I'd prefer your idea of a continuation run of M8Fs...

[joeb]

Well I suppose we will have to wait another couple of days to find out for sure.

I would like to see the URC end up being an opening up of the ALMS prototype class to keep Dyson and Pickett happy and maybe get more cars in there as well.

[Speed-King]

Who said anything about GT3?!

[picchiofan]

So, another spec one make support series. Ala Patron cup.

Phew, the series is saved.

-Charlie

[MitchZ06]

....GTC class was meant for one make series cars right? Err....URC McLarens vs Cup Porsches vs Ferrari Challenge F458s anyone?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

So, another spec one make support series. Ala Patron cup.

Phew, the series is saved.

-Charlie

the latest update from the Bear says it is not a McLaren one make series. from twitter:

A source this morning says the Unlimited Racing Championship is NOT a McLaren vanity series.

[MitchZ06]

Can-Am? LMPEvo? Who knows?!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

....GTC class was meant for one make series cars right? Err....URC McLarens vs Cup Porsches vs Ferrari Challenge F458s anyone?

The Evora's apparently going to be added to the LMS GTC class too.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This year in the ALMS, even with anemic fields, I think we've actually had closer finishes on average, and at least equal racing. Mazda vs Aston.. not quite the cache, but then it hasn't had the marketing either.

Open up the restrictors, make them the fastest sportscars in the world, open up the engine rules, keep the loud, fast and exciting. Great for marketing. Open up GTC, maybe even share GTC rules with Grand Am. Do more enduros.

Do a couple of combined events with Grand Am even... invite them to Sebring to run the 12. Do a combined, but seperate race at Watkins Glen.

Is that not the polar opposite of the GT only proposal where the goal was factory involvment, TV ratings etc. The above sounds like the post IMSA GTP era with an open door policy to entries and longer race. It was great for privateers but the sportscar scene didn't have much of a profile or manufactuer involvment until the arrival of the ALMS.

The fact there isn't an obvious route forward could be an argument to stick with current arrangements for the short-term at least.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Is that not the polar opposite of your GT only proposal where the goal was factory involvment, TV ratings etc.

My first mention of going GT only was about 18 months ago. Part of the proposition was to keep the current and excellent GT field together. Since then the ALMS introduced the unpopular media platform, and along with other influences and factors, we will now see about half of the GT grid exit stage left in the next two years. My thoughts were to prevent these losses (that I felt were likely coming without change), and the losses of these top notch teams from IMSA/ALMS. I don't know if focusing the attention on GT would have stopped this or not, but times have changed. It's now TOO LATE, to make such changes. The barn door opened, time for other solutions to try and keep things at least the level we have, as much as that is lower than what it was.

The fact there isn't an obvious route forward could be an argument to stick with current arrangements for the short-term at least.

Current arrangement ensures death or irrelevancy... It isn't an acceptable way forward.

Again, I wrote about the issues of the ACO and the ALMS some 21 months ago, and how the wants/needs of the ACO and ALMS were divergent. Of course Jag, you argued that this was patently false the whole time, and that ILMC/WEC would be great for all. Jag, I don't know if you mostly argue for Status Quo because it is what you know, and don't like change, or you simply cannot see how the landscape can change, and how events/announcements are threats and/or opportunities.

My expectation is that Don and Scott will renew with the ACO, and will continue to deteriorate, due to a complete inability for forward thinking, and only the ability to attempt to tread water. Short of Don having some sort of epiphany, changing the management and direction... the only real solution is to find new ownership/management for the series. Of course that is nothing new, and that option was pursued some 21 months ago too.. Don seems more concerned in vanity projects that will do nothing at all for the state of the sport, then the actual health of his series.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

GTC should run the Supercup exhaust.

Do you think they don't for cost savings? Because at Lime Rock I believe there is a really low decibel limit, so instead of forcing teams to go through the cost of changing in and out the exhaust at all, they just mandate the quieter exhaust?

Chris

[Duff_44]

I don't think there's any separate decibel limit at Lime Rock for professional events, although they do have different ones for different club-level meetings. Right now the limits for both LMP and GTE are 110 db, I'd assume that GTC would be limited to that as well - but probably runs well below that due to spec parts.
The "with better knowledge than myself" crowd can feel free to prove me wrong on that...

I'm in a real conundrum on this whole IMSA/ACO issue. I want the series to continue strongly with a big field of prototypes, but don't want them dumbed-down to DP levels or become a spec series to do it. I also worry about the ACO withdrawing their consent to use anything resembling their rulebook, which means IMSA has to start entirely from scratch for both prototypes and GT's.

I'm under no illusions of a really "unlimited" championship. But could an unlimited engine/Group C-type formula work with a fuel consumption limit? Full racing engines allowed but give a little bit extra fuel for stock-based engines?

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Duff_44

I'm in a real conundrum on this whole IMSA/ACO issue. I want the series to continue strongly with a big field of prototypes, but don't want them dumbed-down to DP levels or become a spec series to do it. I also worry about the ACO withdrawing their consent to use anything resembling their rulebook, which means IMSA has to start entirely from scratch for both prototypes and GT's.

I think that IMSA could cut all ties with the ACO and develop rules based around the rolling chassis available for purchase from Oreca, Wirth, Lola and Ginetta/Zytek. The partnership really just means that IMSA has the right to use the Le Mans name and other items owned by the ACO. Apparently it also meant "close cooperation" rules-making and the like. But the point is, without that partnership IMSA could create a new prototype class using modern LMP tubs but engine rules, tire rules, competition rules that are more sensible and fit the North American teams while still being inspiring to watch on a technology level.

Chris

[Fogelhund]

I don't believe it is possible for them to block usage of essentially the same rules. Use the same basic chassis rules, open up the engines..

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

I think that IMSA could cut all ties with the ACO and develop rules based around the rolling chassis available for purchase from Oreca, Wirth, Lola and Ginetta/Zytek. The partnership really just means that IMSA has the right to use the Le Mans name and other items owned by the ACO. Apparently it also meant "close cooperation" rules-making and the like. But the point is, without that partnership IMSA could create a new prototype class using modern LMP tubs but engine rules, tire rules, competition rules that are more sensible and fit the North American teams while still being inspiring to watch on a technology level.

Chris

Absolutely they could.
They could adapt what ever displacement, weight, aero rules they desire on the same chassis now run in any class.
It was Panoz brown-nosing the ACO that doomed the IMSA from the get-go.

[chernaudi]

With Strakka running an ARX-03 in the WEC next year, could that maybe be a car that Cytosport might run in the ALMS, considering that they've spoken to Nick Wirth and HPD over at least an engine supply deal?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

With Strakka running an ARX-03 in the WEC next year, could that maybe be a car that Cytosport might run in the ALMS, considering that they've spoken to Nick Wirth and HPD over at least an engine supply deal?

If Cytosport decides to come back, if there is an ALMS, yes that is one of the many options and people they've talked with.

[KA]

Wirth is quoted as saying it is 'realistic' that there will be a car in the ALMS

'It is great to get the first car along the line, but hopefully we will be announcing another car soon'

Autosport suggest there has been 'significant interest in the ARX03a from both sides of the Atlantic'

[The Badger]

Im not surprised ..... its about the best petrol car out there ..... Oreca/Nissan doesnt excatly have reliability yet ..... yet .

Is anyone from the USA showing interest in an Oreca yet ?

[courageous]

Earlier in the year Toyota announced an exclusive tie up with Lola chassis so I would have expected at least 1 non-rebellion car to turn up (and obviously that won't be in Europe)

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by courageous

Earlier in the year Toyota announced an exclusive tie up with Lola chassis so I would have expected at least 1 non-rebellion car to turn up (and obviously that won't be in Europe)

At this point, nothing more than fantasy...