Modified Cars

[Truckosaurus]

It would look nicer without the stickers, and the Subaru/MG style wing. I actually like the Toyota Supra, but the 2 pictures of them in this thread are just too gaudy.

I'll freely admit that I obviously don't get it, and am at the age of 28 am obviously too old.

I think I'll go with a nice standard TVR if I may...

[woodyracing]

Thats a nice TVR Tuscan, but i bet them Supra's would get more attention (not that I'm an attention seeker). Also in the TVR someone could pull up next to you in an identical car

[jonboyG]

My point is this: Car companies spend vast amounts of money these days on developing cars and their handling. Then Jonny comes along and adds wheels that screw up the gear ratio's because they're too big and are heavier than the wheels they replaced, and buggers the handling.

As for wings and things, my immediate thought upon seeing a car with a huge wing is why the driver think's he's doing 250 mph down the mulsanne straight in his mx5/golf/ford escort

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by jonboyG
My point is this: Car companies spend vast amounts of money these days on developing cars and their handling. Then Jonny comes along and adds wheels that screw up the gear ratio's because they're too big and are heavier than the wheels they replaced, and buggers the handling.

As for wings and things, my immediate thought upon seeing a car with a huge wing is why the driver think's he's doing 250 mph down the mulsanne straight in his mx5/golf/ford escort

A lot of this is all too true. Cars are pretty good now, not like the compromises of thirty years ago. I've long felt the most successful modification to any car is to stick Konis on it.. but nobody sees them!

[woodyracing]

nah, standard road cars are made with massive compromises to keep down costs, to give a smooth comfortable rides, and noise and emissions low etc..

Standard road cars are much easier (u might say nicer) to drive. Modified cars follow the specs and designs of race cars, ie solid suspension for real handling (even though they are a pain on bumpy roads) etc.

Also look at the ride height of standard cars, (designed for that big speed bump), you can crawl under some cars. Unlike race cars and modified cars, of course with lower centre of gravity improving balance and cornering etc..

As for wheel sizes, well the overall tyre and wheel diameter is not much different, because modifies use much lower profile tyres.

Whats wrong with rear wings anyway ? people dont complain about them on GT cars, road car wings work too.

Some people also complain about noisy exhausts on modified cars, well its cos they are "free flow" exhausts, similar or the same as race exhaust systems. Unlike the very restrictive standard exhausts which are designed to be quiet instead of giving maximum gas flow and power.

On another note, if you notice the new hot hatches and sporty cars that are coming out, well they are all learning from the modified scene (bigger wheels, brakes, bodykits, lower and stiffer suspension etc). Look at the new Vauxhaull Zafira GSi, its a maxed up MPV !!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by woodyracing
Modified cars follow the specs and designs of race cars, ie solid suspension for real handling etc.

Here's a nice little challenge for you...

Bearing in mind that not all roads are billiard-table smooth... prove your above assertion.

[woodyracing]

Ray, im no expert on suspension but its a well known thing, that stiffer suspension on track gives better grip/handling and you can certainly feel the difference. A solid setup gives you much more confidence than if its leaning and rocking like a boat. Soft suspension increases body roll, and apart from feeling bad, im sure it upsets the balance.
Having a track setup might be difficult to live with on the roads, but thats the compromise.

[Ray Bell]

I think you need to look a little more closely at what couplings there are in automotive suspensions, woody...

It's the function of the anti-roll bar to control body roll, not the springs. Just like it's the springs that soak up the 'shocks' and not the dampers.

It's also a fact that body roll etc contribute to road 'feel' and give the messages to the driver that he needs to know how to deal with situations. As a matter of fact, as a well-experienced Peugeot driver I know that the movement of the car on its suspension need not be disconcerting at all.

Try a go-kart on a public road some time...

And please bear in mind, I did say we are talking about roads, not circuits. They are not as smooth.

[woodyracing]

like i said, im no expert, but if you go to a tuning garage/specialist they will recommend a set of springs and dampers to improve the handling. And this is very common.
You can also get the bushes uprated, but I'm pretty sure that on most road cars, they dont start messing with the anti roll bars. I've certainly seen the difference that a new suspension setup can give, my mate had a set of Koni's which were rock hard, you couldn't rock the car at all. Most roads around here are tarmac/concrete and are pretty good, and motorways etc. The main problems are with speed bumps and messy roadworks.

[jonboyG]

Whats wrong with rear wings anyway ? people dont complain about them on GT cars, road car wings work too.

Like a ford escort needs downforce? People don't complain about them on GT cars because they're needed there, not on the way to Tesco's.

As for ride having to be stiff, look at the lotus Elise - fantastic ride, absorbs bumps and potholes, will drive rings round anything max powered. Setting a road car up like a racer is fine if all you drive on is billiard table smooth roads. I don't know about where you live, but there's bugger all like that in my neck of the woods.

Also look at the ride height of standard cars, (designed for that big speed bump), you can crawl under some cars. Unlike race cars and modified cars, of course with lower centre of gravity improving balance and cornering etc..

And what happens when they put speed bumps on your road, or you get compression going up a hill? Goodbye sump/gearbox/exhaust.

Most roads around here are tarmac/concrete and are pretty good, and motorways etc.

Unlike the M4, M3, M25...

[KC]

I love the guys who have lowered their cars to the point that they cannot cross the railroad tracks or enter an elevated drive without stopping first. There is not point in doing this if it offers no improvement. 99% of car mods are for cosmetic reasons, posing and the like. I especially like the owners who feel the need to make a lot of noise but are not going any faster, that is the same thing as having huge speakers in your car, not for the owner to listen to, but for everyone else. Its a joke.

[woodyracing]

yep, there are a lot of posers about, and its not very practical when your car cant get over speed bumps. Im not into big stereo systems anymore, but they can be fun! music is great, but id be embarrassed to blast it out down the streets.
But if you forget about racecars (which most people cant afford anyway), then modified cars are much better and cooler than something thats standard.
You guys are so negative about them, that im obviously talking about them in the wrong place.


bye bye

[fast95pony]

I've been modifying my '95 Mustang GT.I've spent about $20,000 CDN .It's all gone into the engine and suspension .
I've gone from 215 BHP / 285 lbs TQ to 415 BHP/440lbs TQ .
A big chunk of the cost went to replace the stock V8 engine (blew a piston out of the block ) .

The body is still stock.The only external changes are the 17X9 rims and it's lowered by 1 1/2" .

I'm not a fan of body kits ,big wings etc .I prefer "GO" to "SHOW".

Alan

[woodyracing]

cool, i prefer more go than show too.
my argument in here was that standard cars can always be improved, like what you have done. The two supra pictures, are modified to the extreme - they are show cars, its what lots of people and the magazines like to see.
Theres always subtle cosmetic improvements like clear indicators, instead of amber ones etc..

[Hans.ca]

I can tell you a little story about extra HP under the hood. When Don Nicols (Shadow) switched his can-am cars from normaly aspirated engines to turbo charged he had quit a few chevy engines left over. The displacement was about 514 cu inches and the hp was well over 800. He was approached by a cigar boat racer to sell him on of these engines. The deal was that Don would install the engine into the customers brand new Suburban. After the installation was finished the customer drove the car out of the team garage (in Chicago) and then tramped it as soon as he was on the street. The rear axle banjo housing was turned into a pretzel. The truck was towed to the dealer and he replaced the entire rear end without even checking under the hood. All this was completed under warranty.
When the truck was ready the customer picked it up and drove it out of the dealers lot and again tramped it and twisted another rear end into a pretzel. This time he had to pay to replace the rear axle. Don Nicols took the hot engine out and installed the original engine in the truck but the customer got to keep the can-am engine. I assume that the customer eventually installed the engine in one of his cigar boats.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by woodyracing
like i said, im no expert, but if you go to a tuning garage/specialist they will recommend a set of springs and dampers to improve the handling. And this is very common.

Sure... this is one way to make money, and the customer will definitely notice the car stick better on corners where he can hang on as it judders around on the road...

You can also get the bushes uprated, but I'm pretty sure that on most road cars, they dont start messing with the anti roll bars. I've certainly seen the difference that a new suspension setup can give, my mate had a set of Koni's which were rock hard, you couldn't rock the car at all.

Plenty of people will start with bars... plenty!

And if you set Konis 'rock hard' from new you run the risk of damaging them... and what are the springs there for if the dampers prevent them working?

[Airhead]

Umm,

I've followed this conversation for the last 5 minutes and Ray is right. Some compliance and feedback is the go on the road. Some suprisingly unexciting cars (and bikes) are very fast point ot point in the real world with longer travel suspension.

Plus, I dislike w a n k e r s in Hyundias with stupid modifications.

Like three storey high wings off the boot!

[woodyracing]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Plenty of people will start with bars... plenty!

fair enuff, but in my collection of over 3 years of Max Power magazines and the likes, i've hardly heard them mention the anti roll bars.

[Airhead]

I guess you only need them when you go round corners.

In a straight line don't they call them tramp bars.

[Hobson]

Woody, I know what they are on about, look for references to strut braces and torsion bars .

[woodyracing]

yeah i know struct braces, my mate had one on his car.
i dont often hear about the torsion bars though.

[Hobson]

Saxo's have torsion bars on the back.

[Ray Bell]

There are many places torsion bars can be used on a car. Most common are anti-roll bars, but bootlid lift-assists are sometimes lightweight torsion bars, and many cars have torsion bars as the suspension medium instead of springs.

They have even been used as the valve closing medium in engines, notably in the 1965/66 Formula 2 Honda engines.