Global Rallycross Championship 2012

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Why so? It's rally cars running in a tight circuit.

Look at any description of rallycross including the Global site and even the latest press release from the Suburu team. Rallycross is part tarmac part gravel or off road, the only off road here is the jump.

I would imagine the problem is NASCAR dont want dirt dragged on to the oval but if thats the case then they should have gone else where, where they could have at least made an attempt to keep the basic format of the sport.

[rallycrossnl]

the tunnel of fire is there...
'Piro at end each heat'.

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Oops, knew I'd forget at least one!

Marcus Gronholm - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Best Buy Racing/OMSE)
David Binks - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Best Buy Racing/OMSE)
Tanner Foust - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Rockstar Energy/OMSE)
Brian Deegan - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Rockstar Energy/OMSE)
Toomas Heikkinen - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (OMSE)
Ken Block - Ford Fiesta H.F.H.V. (Mk.7) (Monster World Rally Team)
Liam Doran - Citroen C4 (Monster Energy)
Sverre Isachsen - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Dave Mirra - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Bucky Lasek - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Travis Pastrana - Dodge Dart (Red Bull/OMSE?)
Rhys Millen - Hyundai Veloster (Rhys Millen Racing)
Stéphane Verdier - Hyundai Veloster (Rhys Millen Racing)
Andy Scott - Saab 93 (Scott-Eklund Racing)
? - Saab 93 (Scott-Eklund Racing)

14 confirmed drivers, 15 confirmed cars. Any ideas who is going to be taking the second Saab yet? I'm curious to see if OMSE will run the Dodge Dart, or have they just done the build and will now hand it over to the Dodge team? Could see it potentially being a conflict of interests otherwise?

Thought Rene Munnich's Supercar was being shipped over or did I imagine that.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

...because this new form of American motorsport has little to do with rallycross.

Grids of cars racing on a mixed surface track: isn't that [i]exactly[i] what rallycross is?

As has been said in other threads I can understand how some find the show element of the GRC off-putting, but I'm still surprised at how unsupportive many long term rallycross fans are of the GRC. I seriously doubt we'd have Monster putting money towards events and drivers in the UK, nor would David Binks have a full works drive without the US interest in rallycross.


NB: Despite not being bothered by the X-Games veneer of the GRC, even I think "the car wash" sounds a bit silly!

[USRallycross]

I personally prefer to see a true mixed surface in my rallycross as well. But, we have to work with the options we have. There isn't enough money to build the tracks and promote if you have to build the track each time where we could get enough fans.

So SMI give the potential of 40k spectators but there is no gravel. Not ideal for the purist in me but a lot better than not having Gronholm, Foust, Pastrana, etc racing. Who knows if SMI and Americans like the sport maybe dirt will be seen as the next 'wow' factor. I have a proposal of how they could do it at Speedways.

I actually am interested to see the water splash. Havent decided on that one yet.

Mark

[chasing cars]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Grids of cars racing on a mixed surface track: isn't that [i]exactly[i] what rallycross is?

Yep something the GRC seem to have overlooked. As Ive said before look at all press releases etc which have tried to explain the sport to the Americans, this now contradicts all that.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

Rallycross is part tarmac part gravel or off road, the only off road here is the jump.

Oh, I had forgotten about that (the scarcity of dirt in American rallycross).

To replace it, how about flooding one of the corners with water, rather than showering them ina boring straight?

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

the tunnel of fire is there...
'Piro at end each heat'.

Nah, it doesn't count. Even IndyCar has had some of those (this time it'll be better, I know). A tunnel of fire must have fire around the car.

[tbtstt]

For some reason that little map of the track design didn't display when I opened this thread earlier. Having now looked at it I can see now why some of the purists are having trouble getting onboard...

Originally Posted by USRallycross

So SMI give the potential of 40k spectators but there is no gravel.

...given that I used the dictionary defination of rallycross to defend the GRC, thats pretty much shot that argument square in the foot!

Although, as said before, I can see all the extra exposure being good, this seems a bit of a backwards step in track design (to me anyway).

[rallycrossnl]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Nah, it doesn't count. Even IndyCar has had some of those (this time it'll be better, I know). A tunnel of fire must have fire around the car.

I was merely responding to Eddi's tongue in cheek remake about a big finish with 'tunnel of fire' by a euphemistic reply, 'oh but there is, there is piro at each heat finish'. Is called humor, sarcasm, phun...
oh nevermind


A waterpassage dosn't have to be deep to be fun, just 4 inches of water (constantly re-filled up of course) is fun enough.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

I personally prefer to see a true mixed surface in my rallycross as well. But, we have to work with the options we have. There isn't enough money to build the tracks and promote if you have to build the track each time where we could get enough fans.

Mark

I take the point Mark but hopefully you'll be able to persuade them eventually that gravel actually adds a lot to the entertainment and visual spectacle on TV. I've no idea how much it costs to put down a temporary gravel track but I remember the Open Championship lads managed to do it in London Docklands for the Excel event - and I doubt they had the cash the GRC has...?

I assume slick tyres are banned?

[NaBUru38]

rallycrossnl, I talk seriously because I wouldn't be that surprised if GRX actually adopts a tunnel of fire.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I've no idea how much it costs to put down a temporary gravel track but I remember the Open Championship lads managed to do it in London Docklands for the Excel event - and I doubt they had the cash the GRC has...?

The GRC managed to do it at Irwindale and Pikes Peak last year, with the series being bigger this year I was personally expecting better, not worse, track design.

I guess you could argue that as the jump is comprised of dirt its still "mixed surface" racing, but I hope you can convince them that this isn't the way to represent rallycross: or win the cynics over!

[chasing cars]

Charlotte speedways description of rallycross makes good reading "combining the energy of motorsport and the attitude of action sport" "combines racing with drifting and stunt jumps where big air meets high speed! Seems like the off road part of the sport ie the rally part of the name rallycross has been totally cast aside. Maybe it should be given a new name then they can do what they like as far as Im concerned.

Its a shame, it seems to me that SMI are pulling all the strings. The GRC saw the potential of a big audience and a huge marketing potential and therefore big money for a few people without looking at the logistics of running a proper rallycross event at a nascar/indycar cicuit.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

Maybe it should be given a new name then they can do what they like as far as Im concerned.

Hoon Kaboom?

http://www.texasmotorspeedway.com/Hoon/Athletes.aspx

[rallycrossnl]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

rallycrossnl, I talk seriously because I wouldn't be that surprised if GRX actually adopts a tunnel of fire.

I do understand your point NaBUru38 , and indeed, who knows how much of a show they'll put up in the end to attract more spectators when they try to start rallycross-only events again.




Temp gravel tracks sound more easy then it is I'm afraid. Those 500+ bhp cars empty gravel corners within a few laps due to the constant wheelspin, with all the 4 wheels. Maintaining a good gravel/loose/dirt/clay/etc track throughout an event is a real challenge and costs a lot of time.

[tbtstt]

Just seen another version of the track map for Texas and, to me, it implies that there are gravel sections?...



NB: I see Joseph Burke is listed as competing: the only privateer so far?

[USRallycross]

The jump doesn't have gravel. It is a collapsible steel structure so it can be moved easy enough.

Also, setting up Irwindale and Colorado last year left the GRC with no cash or even a minus cash situation. Also remember the tracks weren't being used anything else and could be cleaned afterwards.

At Charlotte and Texas GRC is running with other series who jealousy guard the cleanliness of the oval. No way would they ever allow gravel anywhere near the oval.

Also, on a practical note there is not enough time to build a gravel based track after the Nationwide Series race in time for the live ESPN television spot.

I know there is a lot of angst on here that this isn't rallycross and it certainly isn't rallycross as we know it. Yes, the GRC site talks about rallycross as we know but does it matter? The US has a world series of baseball (with one Canadian team); NFL has the world champions and NBA does the same with no foreign teams. The US public doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks and very few of them are going to watch youtube videos of the real thing. The GRC is a show - is a hybrid of the rallycross we love but it is a lot better than NASCAR or IndyCar.......

If you want real rallycross in the US then you have it. Rally America's first round takes places at New Jersey Motorsport Park next weekend. This is real rallycross on a real track with no jumps, water splashes or fireworks. Entries are around 20 and mainly two-wheel drive rally cars. There are no works teams. This will be a real clubman event but this is the future of rallycross as we know it - and I am showing my support by entering the event. J.B.Niday has a solid Clubman focused series for 2012 growing in 2013 and I am hopeful for success. However, I don't think this will ever see true SuperCars because it will price everyone out of the sport. Open Class rally cars and 'older' Supercars (like the Binks EVO) are about the limit.

So that is just my take. Not what i hoped would come to America but after several years of frustration it is still better than nothing. I am off to LA for our first test tomorrow and sure that will get me excited but reading you guys on here makes me want to run to the hills.......

Mark

[juha205]

Well, now I know the meaning of "G" in GRC....Globetrotters

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

So that is just my take. Not what i hoped would come to America but after several years of frustration it is still better than nothing. I am off to LA for our first test tomorrow and sure that will get me excited but reading you guys on here makes me want to run to the hills.......

In my defense I've been pretty enthusiastic throughout the growth of the GRC thus far.

I appreciate there are compromises that have to be made, but so far I've thought that GRC/rallycross at X-Games has steadily improved as time has gone by. Irrespective of the reasons, the absense of gravel strikes me as a massive step backwards as, by definition, its a fundamental part of rallycross. I assuming that the situation with all tarmac circuits is going to be a reoccuring theme at all the NASCAR based events this year, so the only proper rallycross circuit on the GRC calendar in 2012 will be X-Games.

I'm certainly not attacking you - or your hard work - its just a shame that, in my opinion, the bigger and better 2012 season is going to have inferior circuits to last year.

As with the dirt oval "rallycross" at X-Games 16, I now hope this year will just be a stepping stone and you'll be able to revert to proper rallycross tracks if the series goes global next year.

[tbtstt]

Pictures now up on Facebook of Toomas Heikkinen and his Fiesta, can't see any pictures on the rallycross websites yet. Having seen him mentioned I can't actually see any "official" confirmation for Burke on his own site or elsewhere?

Marcus Gronholm - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Best Buy Racing/OMSE)
David Binks - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Best Buy Racing/OMSE)
Tanner Foust - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Rockstar Energy/OMSE)
Brian Deegan - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Rockstar Energy/OMSE)
Toomas Heikkinen - Ford Fiesta Mk.7 (Bluebeam/OMSE)
Ken Block - Ford Fiesta H.F.H.V. (Mk.7) (Monster World Rally Team)
Liam Doran - Citroen C4 (Monster Energy)
Sverre Isachsen - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Dave Mirra - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Bucky Lasek - Subaru Impreza GR (Subaru/Puma)
Travis Pastrana - Dodge Dart (Red Bull/Discount Tire Company)
Rhys Millen - Hyundai Veloster (Rhys Millen Racing)
Stéphane Verdier - Hyundai Veloster (Rhys Millen Racing)
Andy Scott - Saab 93 (Scott-Eklund Racing)
? - Saab 93 (Scott-Eklund Racing)
Joseph Burke - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX (Burke Motorsport)?

Given that Barrie mentioned him a page or so ago, does anyone know if Rene Munnich is going to the US or not? What about Marcus Dodd as well? Is he back for 2012?

[FIRE]

What about the team Holte would drive for? They are a no show?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by FIRE

What about the team Holte would drive for? They are a no show?

Michael Crawford Motorsports I think it was?

Good question, as they were talking about running two cars weren't they? Obviously Holte was providing one car, I think PJ Abbott was suppose to in the other one, but have they built the second car? (Were they able to build another without the Holte car as a template?).


EDIT: MCM Facebook page seems to be talking about them still running in the GRC:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michae...16871218323136

[bigdick1977]

Wasn't the issue that Holte's car was going to Abbott in year one whilst the second car was built for Frode ready for 2013. Frode was going to tutor Abbott this year.

[tbtstt]

Official entry list now up on the ESPN site:

http://espn.go.com/action/rally/stor...lycross-season

[chasing cars]

Reading Marcus Gronholms new site has confused things further with more stuff about asphalt and gravel and a typical timetable which suggests an event is going to take place over 2 days similar to the ERC. Also the official GRC guide doesnt help with nearly all the pictures showing cars on gravel. There could be a few disappointed people if things are not made more clear to the paying public.