The real BMWs

[MattC]

It's often said that many people drive a BMW because of brand image. With the new 1 series even BMW themselves have said it provides a chance for buyers to own a BM at a lower price. With all this niche widening which are the real BMWs, the stand out models of the past and present that were, are much better than the competition and make a BMW worth owning?

e46 M3



328



e12 M535i

[Truckosaurus]

Z1

[Woolley]

I drive a BMW. Couldn't care less about the badge or the image. It's rear-wheel drive and almost nothing else is, that's why I bought it.

[429CJ]

My three favourite Beemers:

M635CSi

The 02 series

The 1800 TI/SA

[Logrence]

BMWs are so ugly these days it can only be brand image that makes someone drive one.

[Woolley]

You can't see it from inside it. Who cares what it looks like? Mines a '96 316 which is far from the prettiest they ever built. Handles well, good acceleration (particularly for overtaking) for a 1600 and not to bad on the petrol. It tows the caravan well and is extremely reliable too, so I don't worry much about appearance.

[Logrence]

Fair enough then!

[evo]

I think BMW have lost thier way. Sure they are still great cars, but most are too soft and leaning towards the general public rather than the driving enthusiast. My favourite car of all time is the 2002 Turbo, and I love the e30 (I've owned three of them)

Nowadays they make nothing even like that. It's very sad.

[Truckosaurus]

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

[StuiE]

My fav: E30 M3, not too big, not too small, and the bulging guards...awesome




http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~templates/...e30_m3_evo.jpg

E36 M3 (the later versions of it) look hot too

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

I don't mind it, for a Bangle design it doesn't look that bad, it does look pretty clean.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

Nope - I think it is stunning. The best looking in its class.

[MattC]

The funny thing is that the e46 3 series was styled by Bangle, and it's a good looking car, IMO. The latest 5 series looks its best in dark colours.
The 7 series predecessor, 2500-3.3 saloons, was an impressive machine. The 1972 3.0 Si had 200 bhp, 4 wheel discs, electronic fuel injection and 140 mph top speed.

e3 BMW 2500- 3.0, 3.3Li

Out of the 02 range the 2002 turbo was the first turbo car in Europe, ever!

1973/74 2002 turbo with mirror script spoiler

0-60 under 7 seconds, top speed over 130 mph.

[topwelshman]

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??! They're world market share increased more than any other equivalent marque & is going to increase more with these new models.

I drive a 330cis & the reason I bought it was simply because nothing came close for what I wanted, power, handling, refinement, comfort, good looks, reliability & good Residual Values.

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull

BMW's sell themselves for the very reasons that I wanted one & poor opposition just strengthens their position

[garcon]

Dissection time...

Originally Posted by topwelshman

BMW has certainly not lost its way.

Agreed - at least Bangle's cars are distinctive, and they still do everything as well as BMW's ever did.

The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles...

Do you have figures for that? Is that global, Europe or UK? I thought the XJ was top selling large exec in the UK (rightly so too).

The 3 series outsells the mondeo...

And the new 3 series looks great. I still wouldn't buy one, but that's me... I have an anti-image thing, mainly cos of all the self centred shallow fashion victims that drive them in Cheshire...

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)

Now Mercedes have lost their way - in dealer service as much as quality... people still buy the badge, but when the dealer service at BMW and Lexus is infinitely better they'll defect in the end.

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.

I like the 9-5, but it really isn't even close to the 5 series in handling. And I fear for what GM are going to do to future Saabs - the 9-3 is ok, but the interior quality is noticeably poorer than the older 9-5.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull

Audi build quality is still the benchmark, but dealer service is nearly as bad as Merc, and Audis look poor value next to their VAG counterparts. Still fancy an RS6 though...

I'm a kind of anti-badge snob I suppose, so the very thing that attracts many buyers to Audi/BMW/Mercedes actually puts me off. My Subaru Legacy has all the quality, refinement and kit of any of them, with a throughly neutral image - suits me fine. Of the more established 'quality' brands, Jaguar are recovering well - the XJ is easily the best car in its class - and Lexus have the quality, reliability and service that Mercedes had twenty years ago.

[evo]

Originally Posted by topwelshman

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??!

Well since I'm the one who used the words "lost thier way" I feel I should point out that I gave reasons why I thought they've lost it, and it had nothing to do with how many cars they sell, what they look like, or what kind of build quality they have.

[MattC]

The BMW 2002 turbo front spoiler mirror script was removed when the 1974 cars came on stream. The car was launched when the fuel crisis came along, media and public sentiment was against what they felt was an inappropriate car for the time (fast & thirsty), and they didn't like the boy racer concept for the spoiler mirror script.
I too was surprised by the post saying the new 7 series had sold well. The 80s M3 was a standout car, probably still the best M3 of all time. It was a real racer, and had the looks too.
The BMW 503 of the 50s was styled by Goertz, the man who did the BMW 507 and Datsun 240Z. The 503 V8 was a much admired convertible and coupe in its day, but it's high price meant it wasn't a sales success, pity.

1950s BMW 503 V8

[MattC]

BMW 745i turbo, turbocharged I6 luxury automatic cruiser of the early to mid 80s. Lots of buttons to play with.

745i

3.2/3.5 turbo

gadgets!

[MattC]

The 3.0 Si was a manual only car, only the carb 3.0s could have an automatic. The pre 1976 3.0 Si had the full 200 bhp D jetronic 6 cylinder, then they lost 5 hp in 1976 when the engine got L jetronic injection, I think they lowered the compression ratio too. There aren't many left around.
I think it has taken the arrival of the current e46 M3 to get the M3 back where it was when the e30 M3 was going, the in between versions were a bit soft.

1974 520 advert

e23 730

[alfasud]

My current road car is an E34 535i 5-speed from 1989, but can't say I'm a great fan of the new cars, with the exception of the E46 M3 CSL.

Favourites would be the 3.0 CS/CSi/CSL, the E12 M535i, the M635CSi, the E28 M5 and E34 M5. Also quite like the E36 M3 (evo model) with 321bhp from 3.2L but my all time favourite would be the E30 M3 and its Evolution models.

These days BMW seem to be in some sort of insane competition with Mercedes to see how much electronic junk they can fit into the car. Mind you.... I don't think they have quite as many problems as Mercedes.....

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com

[MattC]

I was just reading about some technology in Italy where they are using software, GPS and hydraulics to get rid of the steering wheel in cars. So they steer themselves for a set journey. Nice idea, but what happens when it doesn't work?
750iL, for captains of industry with deep pockets.



Hi Line trim!!

Look at all the toys!!

[MattC]

Well, here are two BMWs that won't topple at 40 mph.

Batmobile

700 RS

[MattC]

Alpina had the right idea about the e31 8 series.

B12 5.0

B12 5.7

[MattC]

The classic fast square rigged style of the BMW 3.0Si.

[MattC]

Very neat shape, except for the silly over-sized 'American' front bumper, which I think rather spoils it in that form.

Yeah, remember the Volvo 240 bumpers? I think everyone hated those, and the image stuck on Volvo for many tears. Practical,..but so is polyester.

[MattC]

Speaking of aesthetically pleasing I have always thought that the Z3 shape was very nice, much better than the latest Z4. The Z3 may never have had the chassis/mechanicals to claim greatness, but the shape looked good, maybe that was the whole point of the car?