Costs in F1

[freud]

I have a few questions with regards to costs in formula one. I will be thankful if those who know about these issues can share their opinion.

Q-1. What is the minimum cost required to make a f1 car (including assembly & parts)?

Q-2. What is the cost of F 2002 (Ferrari)? Is it the most expensive car on grid? If so how much more than, say a Williams or Mclaren?

Q-3. What is the minimum cost required to start a f1 GP team?

Q-4. What is the most expensive single component on f1 car?

Q-5. How much an f1 engine cost?

Q-6. How much the F1 tyre cost? (cost of one tyre and costs of all tyres for a GP weekend) Is their a difference in price between Bridgestone and Michelin? How do the teams negotiate with the tyre manufacturers?

[f1manoz]

TOO BLOODY MUCH!!!!

[Miss Hardt]

I had those somewhere, but I threw away the magazine...what a pitty

[kmchow]

Thanks to listmembers who told me where to buy "that magazine"--the one with all those numbers, so here goes.

The amounts listed are in US $, millions. First # is cash support, 2nd # is trade/technical support, 3rd # is other sources, 4th # is Grand total.

Ferrari - 224.5m+34.55m+43m=$302.4m
Mclaren - 144.3m+124.5m+19m=$287.8m
BMW - 110.5m+101.5+18m=$230m
Sauber - 55.15m+32.3+17m=$104.35m
Jordan - 64m+112m+14m=$190m
BAR - 98.25m+123.15m+14m=$235.4m
Renault - 139.5m+101.3m+15m=$255.8m
Jaguar - 101.25m+95.52m+15m=$211.77m
Arrows - 31.15m+4.4m+14m=$49.55m
Minardi - 24.55m+42.9m+16m=$83.45m
Toyota - 162.3m+53.2m+22m=$238.m

Looking at these numbers, I am in disbelief. How could so much money be possibly spent on racing? Travelling expenses? Too much in-house technical expertise? I hear teams like to basically have their own aero, mechanical electronic and software engineering teams? Mini-factories as well? Perhaps there should be some joint sharing of parts? YEAH RIGHT!

I once heard that Ferrari has staff working 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year to design/test new cars/parts. My brother doubts that claim. He thinks that during the racing season, but even off-season? Can anyone refute or add their support to those claims?

[Lee Janotta]

Today: More than 99.9% of earth's population will ever make in their lifetimes.

35 years ago: Enough to buy a second-hand Cooper, Lotus or BRM, freshen the engine, replace the tires and brakes, get the car to the track, and pay the entry fee.

Of interest may be the story of the most obscure F1 entrant ever:

http://f1rejects.crosswinds.net/driv...nes/index.html

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by kmchow
Looking at these numbers, I am in disbelief. How could so much money be possibly spent on racing? Travelling expenses? Too much in-house technical expertise? I hear teams like to basically have their own aero, mechanical electronic and software engineering teams? Mini-factories as well? Perhaps there should be some joint sharing of parts? YEAH RIGHT!

I wouldn't be calling them mini factories as that wouldn';t fit with what they have..LOL

Established teams have their own wind tunnels, like BAR and Jordans...Honda sets up engine workshops to further develop their engines with the teams. Others like Ferrari, Macs, Williams and Renault which enters as a full factory team virtually have huge areas for everything to be centralised. And Ferrari even have their own track to test drive the cars within their vicinity.

Originally posted by kmchow
I once heard that Ferrari has staff working 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year to design/test new cars/parts. My brother doubts that claim. He thinks that during the racing season, but even off-season? Can anyone refute or add their support to those claims?

What's not to beleive, they are all employed for the whole year...that's how they got to be where they are now. Windtunnels virtually operates 24 hours a day even for teams like Jaguar. Now even Sauber have their own windtunnel and although they are using Ferrari customer engines, they have this SPE (Sauber Petronas Engineering) to further develop the engines. When we are talking about F1, we are talking about serious involvements in total racing.

[kmchow]

Really? Sauber actually continues to develop their Ferrari F1 engines. And Ferrari actually lets them? I guess even if Sauber learns Ferrarri's engine secrets, they don't have the facilities and money to build the engines themselves?

[Sato san]

its just all silly money !!!...i think its got all out of hand .

[Gt_R]

From what i heard, yes Sauber actually did a little work on their Ferrari engine supplies. And with the developing relationship, Sauber is no longer enjoying "year-old engines" but "half-year old" engines... Sauber is, if information is correct, currently running the heavily revised engine Ferrari used at Austrialia this year.


Like many, i can't recall the exact values of the team's finances and expenditure...but the minimum cost to start an F1 GP team is really huge...that is excluding the somewhat insanely high deposit the teams have to pay Max & Bernie just to secure a place on the grid. I would think that the engine is one of the most expensive part of the car, and considering how year-old engines cost in the market at the region of $20 to $25 million, you would think developing new engines by Ferrari and BMW are much higher.

If i'm not wrong, currently Ferrari does not need to pay for their tyre supplies. In fact, does Bridgestone actually PAY Ferrari for supplying tires? I do think so, and more often than not, it actually comes together as a deal that allows the tire manufacturers to even supply tires to their road car division. I believe currently Williams and Mclaren also share similar benefits of not having to pay for their tires, but for smaller teams like Minardi, its sadly a different story.

Many have the idea that Ferrari have by far a huge margin more money than the other teams...but many have also failed to take into the account that Ferrari produces inhouse engines, while teams like Mclaren and Williams actually have partners that produce engines for them... taking that into account, Mclaren and Williams spend actually very similar amount of money on their cars as much as Ferrari.

And i think the main reason why teams prefer to have their own inhouse software, electronics, aero department is because of firstly the flexibility and adaptability of the department to their own needs as well as the secrecy of the work carried out.