Rules 4 pit lane.....

[mitzi dude]

Rules for the pit lane, at my track we have this ruling this has not been force long. and it states that no children under 16 allowed. it used to be 12. and the other one is no open toed shoes, and its amazing how many people break this ruling. whats your veiws on this ???????

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by mitzi dude

Rules for the pit lane, at my track we have this ruling this has not been force long. and it states that no children under 16 allowed. it used to be 12. and the other one is no open toed shoes, and its amazing how many people break this ruling. whats your veiws on this ???????

in the uk no one is allowed trackside unless over 18.
16 you can only go as far as the bank.
even on a grid walk,you have to be over 16.

not to sure on the open toe shoe rule,
but once i had to remove a guy from pit lane as he wasn`t wearing any clothing on top half of his body(chief pits say so).

but i can see the logic to it,
it doesn`t turn the pit lane in to a holiday type camp....imo

[Jacko]

Ladies with no clothing on the top half MUST be taken to the back of the pits and be spoken to by anyone that is available.

[Dean Watson]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

in the uk no one is allowed trackside unless over 18.
16 you can only go as far as the bank.
even on a grid walk,you have to be over 16.

not to sure on the open toe shoe rule,
but once i had to remove a guy from pit lane as he wasn`t wearing any clothing on top half of his body(chief pits say so).

but i can see the logic to it,
it doesn`t turn the pit lane in to a holiday type camp....imo

marshals can work at all posts at MOST circuits from 16 some insist on 18,
yet you can get a licence to race at 14

pit lane is minimum age 16 whether officiating or not track side of the pit garage door, inside the garage not relevant providing they are under control

if marshaling open toe footwear is not recommended but spectator wise it can be suggested that they wear appropriate footwear

common sense should dictate that its not clever to be any where hot fluids could be leaking with bare flesh

[AndyT]

Causes interesting situation with T-Cars and Ginetta Juniors, they can get out of the car but not allowed in pit lane

[Dean Watson]

Originally Posted by AndyT

Causes interesting situation with T-Cars and Ginetta Juniors, they can get out of the car but not allowed in pit lane

and SaxMax I remember 2006 at Donnington the SaxMax could not drive to assembly area or scrutineering because the paddock was a public thoroughfare and prevented them by law from driving. at Snetterton i thhink they used the garages

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by AndyT

Causes interesting situation with T-Cars and Ginetta Juniors, they can get out of the car but not allowed in pit lane

Yep - that's why I make them stay in their cars

Rules are clear - no-one under 16 allowed in the pitlane during racing, practice, qualifying, or at any time the pitlane/track is "hot".

Appropriate clothing should be worn at all times whether marshal, team member, or guest.

Even if someone has the correct pass, if they are in-appropriately dressed, then I will ask them to leave, or correct their clothing.

I will never cease to be amazed in some formulae where the rules state that all team members will wear full protective equipment for qualifying and race but is not enforceable during practice/warm-ups, to see them working in the lane in shorts and T-shirts. Things can always go wrong, and cars can catch fire - as we have seen.

If in doubt check with the Chief Pits, he runs the pit-lane, and his decision will always be supported by any sensible clerk

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by mitzi dude

Rules for the pit lane, at my track we have this ruling this has not been force long. and it states that no children under 16 allowed. it used to be 12. and the other one is no open toed shoes, and its amazing how many people break this ruling. whats your veiws on this ???????

In the UK the ruling is that no children under 16 are allowed in the Pit Lane. There is no ruling for open toed shoes, but common sense would dictate otherwise.

With the assistance of some very experienced pit marshals in the UK I wrote http://www.marshals.co.uk/files/PIT%...%20TIPS%20.pdf

How does that compare with your local track?

As regards the comments made by ThePits! I agree 100% with his comments.

Sits back and waits for Simon to faint!!

[pit bull]

Everyone behaves themselves in my pit lane, not had one serious incident yet, and I don't intend on having any either...
Tho I could tell you some horror stories

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by pit bull

Everyone behaves themselves in my pit lane, not had one serious incident yet, and I don't intend on having any either...
Tho I could tell you some horror stories

I love your sentiments and I bet I'd enjoy the horror stories as well!

I've only had one serious incident and that was about four years ago at Donington, when a pick up truck fell off the jack. Unfortunately one of the mechanics still had his head under it at the time. Fortunately, he had a pretty thick skull (no offence intended to the mechanic) and was later seen in the bar at Redgate, well down his fourth pint!

I used the story on several occasions when asking parents to remove their small children to the back of the garage. I dread to think what could have happened had a small child been in the way instead of the mechanic's head.

Deanowat1 states

pit lane is minimum age 16 whether officiating or not track side of the pit garage door, inside the garage not relevant providing they are under control

I'd like to dispute that comment. The Blue Book clearly states that warning signs containing wording along the lines of "Warning. The Pits and Pit Lane are areas of great danger and children under the age of 16 years are prohibited from these areas". To my mind that means that children should not be in the garages or the pit lane at all.

Being reasonable, in this day and age, it's not wise to let your children out of your sight for very long, so I always insist that children remain at the back of the garages when the doors leading into the pit lane are open. What happens when the doors are closed is no concern of mine.

[pit bull]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

What happens when the doors are closed is no concern of mine.

At Oulton, we opperate the rules if a car is in the garage, there must be one door open paddock area and one pit lane garage door open at all time, in case of fire, (all our garages are double doors, both sides) tho rightly or wrongly we do allow under 16's in the garages, but not the pit lane (comments)!!!

[Asp]

I suppose the great problem about not allow under 16s in the garages is enforcing it.
In most pit-lanes, even one solitary marshal can see the vast majority of it from standing in a decent position. Practically there's an infinite number of problems with that, but things can be seen. You can't see in every garage without X-Ray eyes...

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by pit bull

At Oulton, we opperate the rules if a car is in the garage, there must be one door open paddock area and one pit lane garage door open at all time, in case of fire, (all our garages are double doors, both sides) tho rightly or wrongly we do allow under 16's in the garages, but not the pit lane (comments)!!!

imo
All depends if the track is hot,if it is then i would say no,as even the garage comes under potential danger area.
but how many teams let the public into there garage during a live session ?

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by pit bull

At Oulton, we opperate the rules if a car is in the garage, there must be one door open paddock area and one pit lane garage door open at all time, in case of fire, (all our garages are double doors, both sides) tho rightly or wrongly we do allow under 16's in the garages, but not the pit lane (comments)!!!

Sorry, my initial comment was a bit misleading. If the door at the pit lane side is closed, then what goes on behind it is of no concern (unless it's Arturo Merzzario and his barbeque with 5 foot flames - but that's another story!

As far as I am aware all circuits with usable pit garages have the double doors you refer to.

Sadly, the Blue Book gives us no indication as to what is and is not acceptable. "Rules" are therefore invented by the local Chief Pits in an effort to keep his/her pit lane safe. These differ from circuit to circuit, which is why I wrote Hints and Tips for Pit Marshals.

I am of the opinion that we need some hard and fast rules for Pit marshals which need to be incorporated into the Blue Book.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

imo
All depends if the track is hot,if it is then i would say no,as even the garage comes under potential danger area.
but how many teams let the public into there garage during a live session ?

Too many!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

I am of the opinion that we need some hard and fast rules for Pit marshals which need to be incorporated into the Blue Book.

The problem with hard & fast rules is that the more you you make them, the more you need. No general set of rules can take into account local differences, so you start to make more rules covering specific circuits, types of event, etc; you can end up with such a complex set of rules that nobody understands them.

Define 'reasonable'? Can't be done, but intelligently applied to a given situation it covers most eventualities.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Define 'reasonable'? Can't be done, but intelligently applied to a given situation it covers most eventualities.

Point taken Dave, which is why "Hints and Tips" was born. It contains no hard and fast rules but more a set of loose guidelines as to what can and can't happen in pit lanes generally.

The trouble is that Blue Book is extremely vague as regards what you can and can't do in a live pit lane. Local chiefs generally run their pit lanes in the way they see fit or by interpretation of various supplementary regulations. As we are all different, you can guarantee that if we are all in the same pit lane, we'd have different ways of running it safely.

[Clive]

When I've done it and been volunteered to be IC pits, I have "allowed" under 16s in the garage but never in the pit lane itself (ie over the line), and have had to ask gentlemen to put more clothing on, but sadly never any ladies, and certainly not behind the pits!! (although I have had a laugh or two behind his back!!)

[pit bull]

Part of the problem is (as I see it) there are so many different scenarios that could happen in a live pit lane and there are many different ways to deal with them, guide lines are good and can be used to good effect and I don't think that the blue book will issue guide lines.
I personally say to "offenders" (for want of a better word) "have you read your final regs, for this race meet", personally i know that most of them haven't read them at all (shame on them) and most of us experianced pit marshals can spot a memeber of public a mile off (easy meat).

[PVDA]

In Australia the rules are;

• No Under 16's
• No open toed footwear
• long pants (except promo personnel ie Grid girls)
• Only there for your event (no spectating)
• 2 crews members only at trackside signalling wall

[JimW]

I think as a general rule you will find that MSA regulations (including what the pit marshals can get away with inventing ) operate in front of the garage doors. Behind those doors and in the paddock behind that, the dreaded Health and Safety rules, (usually set by the venue owners) apply. Different venue owners vary enormously in how visible those rules are and how draconian they are.

Regards

Jim

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by pit bull

Part of the problem is (as I see it) there are so many different scenarios that could happen in a live pit lane and there are many different ways to deal with them, guide lines are good and can be used to good effect and I don't think that the blue book will issue guide lines.
I personally say to "offenders" (for want of a better word) "have you read your final regs, for this race meet", personally i know that most of them haven't read them at all (shame on them) and most of us experianced pit marshals can spot a memeber of public a mile off (easy meat).

I appreciate the point about the different scenarios and as I said above, if you put all of us Chiefs in the same pit lane together we'd all have different ways of dealing with them!

One of the things I do at the start of each season is to find out what I've volunteered for and download the regs for EVERY series that I'll be working with during the year, in the vain hope that one of them might contain something regarding Pit Lane dos and don'ts! Sometimes I even find the words "no reversing in the Pit Lane" or "no refuelling"

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

As regards the comments made by ThePits! I agree 100% with his comments. Sits back and waits for Simon to faint!!

.....



Thud!

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by pit bull

I personally say to "offenders" (for want of a better word) "have you read your final regs, for this race meet", personally i know that most of them haven't read them at all (shame on them) .

The problem is that most Pit Marshals won't have read them either.

And neither will the Chief, unless they have downloaded them for themselves, as invariably the club will not have supplied them.

Some marshals do - eh Piglet? (FI GT springs to mind ), so the onus is on the Chief to make sure that his 'troops' know the rules as well as - and normally better - than the teams.

and... if in doubt, make 'em up, and then get a bulletin issued

[AndyT]

Originally Posted by thepits!

And neither will the Chief, unless they have downloaded them for themselves, as invariably the club will not have supplied them.

Some clubs do, even give them to Judges