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Old 22 Dec 2011, 00:47 (Ref:3002980)   #2426
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Originally Posted by Acid09 View Post
Would be a stupid decision on Bernhards part. He's been with Porsche for so long and now that it's time to go for the real reward he's leaving?

If I had the chance to contest Le Mans with either Porsche or Audi, that's a no-brainer, isn't it? Especially given that Audi has lost its invincibility at Le Mans and is in kind of a downward spiral performance-wise.
There are numerous examples of contracted drivers developing cars, moving into the series, then being dumped for whoever's the hot property of the day.

If Bernhard has a guaranteed Audi seat for the next two years he should take it, if he perfroms well teams will be fighting for his signature in 2014.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 05:24 (Ref:3003011)   #2427
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Im not so sure about this but If Audi is thiking about securing they're future against the like sof Toyota and Peugeot then they really need to make some hard decisions. Go easy on me but what if Kristensen and McNish lose they're WEC seats and are replaced with Lotterer and Treluyer. Or atleast place McNish and Kristensen in a third car in a privateer team?

Everyone keeps saying that McNish and Kristensen have been with Audisince forever buts thats part of the problem. I love Kristensen and McNish but they're getting older(im walking on eggshells here sorry). Its time for Audi to consider developing they're new talent.

Audi need to develop its drivers. This is the only way unfortunately otherwise they are going to lose Lotterer/Bernhard/Treluyr to peugeot, Toyota...

and then when Kristensen and McNish finally do decide to retire Audi wont have enough drivers....

The Treluyer-Lotterer pairing needs to happen as they're pretty much best friends outside of motorsport...
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 06:36 (Ref:3003024)   #2428
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Im not so sure about this but If Audi is thiking about securing they're future against the like sof Toyota and Peugeot then they really need to make some hard decisions. Go easy on me but what if Kristensen and McNish lose they're WEC seats and are replaced with Lotterer and Treluyer. Or atleast place McNish and Kristensen in a third car in a privateer team?

Everyone keeps saying that McNish and Kristensen have been with Audisince forever buts thats part of the problem. I love Kristensen and McNish but they're getting older(im walking on eggshells here sorry). Its time for Audi to consider developing they're new talent.

Audi need to develop its drivers. This is the only way unfortunately otherwise they are going to lose Lotterer/Bernhard/Treluyr to peugeot, Toyota...

and then when Kristensen and McNish finally do decide to retire Audi wont have enough drivers....

The Treluyer-Lotterer pairing needs to happen as they're pretty much best friends outside of motorsport...
I dont think they will be retiring them for another few year.... if they are not retiring Dindo they wont be retiring TK and Allan. Besides I know they had a bad year but they still have the speed and ability, I would love to see them bounce back this year.

I agree about Treluyer and Lotterer. Maybe they will employ them all and slot two into one of the R8 teams.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 07:43 (Ref:3003034)   #2429
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A interesting (to me) observation that I recently made is as follows: Porsche have been publishing a number of videos of their past participation in LeMans as a buildup to their comeback in 2014.
In each film, a (current) works driver provides a small contributing line on the Porsche comeback (along with other past drivers). In the last of the series of short films, the following drivers provide their comments: Dumas, Lieb, Bergmeister, Pilet, Lietz,Holzer and Long. Bernhard does not provide any comments (and is only seen briefly). Is the writng already on the wall?
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 08:48 (Ref:3003049)   #2430
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Originally Posted by Spyderman View Post
A interesting (to me) observation that I recently made is as follows: Porsche have been publishing a number of videos of their past participation in LeMans as a buildup to their comeback in 2014.
In each film, a (current) works driver provides a small contributing line on the Porsche comeback (along with other past drivers). In the last of the series of short films, the following drivers provide their comments: Dumas, Lieb, Bergmeister, Pilet, Lietz,Holzer and Long. Bernhard does not provide any comments (and is only seen briefly). Is the writng already on the wall?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK6KqpI_eRU

Bernhard's contribution is seen at 1:46.
These are fantastic promo trailers.

Edit:
Just realised you were referring to this trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqXQ4...feature=relmfu

Unsure as to whether Bernhard's omission means a great deal.
Henzler didn't receive any face time, either.

Last edited by R4z3rw33n; 22 Dec 2011 at 09:00.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 09:24 (Ref:3003070)   #2431
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I agree about Treluyer and Lotterer. Maybe they will employ them all and slot two into one of the R8 teams.
Fassler can probably be kept busy with the R8; e.g., with WRT in GT world championship, in 24 hours of Nurburgring, in 24 hours of Spa, ...

However, I don't think that Treluyer and Lotterer will give up their Japanese factory driver for some racing in a GT3 car. Lotterer turned down the offer from Toyota to spearhead their LMP1 program and he is giving up Super GT as well as Formula Nippon (which he won in 2011). Treluyer has officially given up his Super GT seat with NISMO.

I also doubt that Bernhard wants anything less than a WEC seat. If he like GT racing, he can just stick with Porsche.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 10:22 (Ref:3003095)   #2432
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Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
Fassler can probably be kept busy with the R8; e.g., with WRT in GT world championship, in 24 hours of Nurburgring, in 24 hours of Spa, ...

However, I don't think that Treluyer and Lotterer will give up their Japanese factory driver for some racing in a GT3 car. Lotterer turned down the offer from Toyota to spearhead their LMP1 program and he is giving up Super GT as well as Formula Nippon (which he won in 2011). Treluyer has officially given up his Super GT seat with NISMO.

I also doubt that Bernhard wants anything less than a WEC seat. If he like GT racing, he can just stick with Porsche.
How about some races in the DTM? Both Treluyer and Lotterer have experience in that type of racing. They just don't have a full season to race because of the WEC schedule.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 10:31 (Ref:3003104)   #2433
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How about some races in the DTM? Both Treluyer and Lotterer have experience in that type of racing. They just don't have a full season to race because of the WEC schedule.
I can't recall anyone ever doing a partial DTM season intentionally, at least in a works team. I don't think DTM wants that either.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 10:52 (Ref:3003116)   #2434
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Fact of the matter is that Andre and Benoit being at Audi is looking more likely--I think that Ben's official departure from Nismo may've been the final nail in the casket as far as his sportscar future, and though he didn't say it publicly, Audi was probably at the top of his LM24/WEC wish list. And we have more or less confirmation from a Japanese motorsport magazine that Lotterer has asked for a multi-year LMP contract from Audi, and he very well may've signed the dotted line, and if not, such a deal very well may be imminent.

Only question is exactly who will go where--will Audi run 3 drivers per car, or will they have two WEC two car efforts--Abt was rumored for such a deal, but nothing much has been heard since late summer, but the rumor is that Audi will enter at least four cars at LM, and LM is a points paying stop on the WEC, and having such entires could maximize Audi's WEC Mfg'rs' Championship potential. If Andre and Ben both end up at Audi, I'd bet that they'd be paired on a full season team. Only question is will it be Joest or which ever the second team is, provided there is a second team.

Fassler might be on the "other" team unless Audi runs 3 drivers per car in the shorter races, and as far as Bernhard goes, it depends on who wants his services worse--and probably who wants to spend more on a contract.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 11:06 (Ref:3003125)   #2435
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Porche's return in 2014 with a LMP1 car? I'm being off long time
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 12:14 (Ref:3003153)   #2436
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I think that Ben's official departure from Nismo may've been the final nail in the casket as far as his sportscar future, and though he didn't say it publicly, Audi was probably at the top of his LM24/WEC wish list.
I think that it is probably the other way around: Nismo did not renew Treluyer's contract because he already signed a deal with Audi.
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Only question is exactly who will go where--will Audi run 3 drivers per car, or will they have two WEC two car efforts
Manufacturers always use two drivers per car for short (6 hours) races and, as far as I can tell, more than two cars in the WEC is not an option because only two designated cars can score points.

The FIA WEC sporting regulations state:
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The title of FIA World Endurance Champion Manufacturer, LMP1, will be conferred upon the manufacturer which, specially entered in the Manufacturers’ Championship (see. Article 39 D), has scored the greatest number of points after consideration of all the results obtained by the two cars entered by a manufacturer in the Manufacturers’ World Championship (make/model mentioned on the car’s homologation form) in the general classification of the events that have actually taken place.
Contrarily, for the GTE Cup more than two cars can score point.
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The Cup will be awarded to the manufacturer, entered specifically in this Cup, that has scored the greatest number of points in the classification of the categories LMGTE Pro and LMGTE Am combined, after consideration of all the results obtained by the two best classified cars of the same manufacturer (cf. make mentioned on the cars’ homologation form) in the events that have actually taken place.
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Porche's return in 2014 with a LMP1 car? I'm being off long time
Indeed.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 12:18 (Ref:3003156)   #2437
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For the sake of completeness, there is also a trophy for the private LMP1 team, but a team such as Abt would not qualify as a "private" team.
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An FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best private LMP1 team, officially entered in the Championship but not competing for the title of FIA World Endurance Champion Manufacturer, and which does not depend, directly or indirectly, from a financial or technical point of view, on a Manufacturer, in the sense of Article 19 a) above, whether entered in the Championship or not.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 13:52 (Ref:3003199)   #2438
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Originally Posted by Dead-Eye View Post
I can't recall anyone ever doing a partial DTM season intentionally, at least in a works team. I don't think DTM wants that either.
It was done in the 90s during the ITC era but not today, no. I don't even think the DTM allows it.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 13:58 (Ref:3003203)   #2439
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In case people are wondering about the possibility to enter more than two cars in Le Mans, the rules are as follows:
Quote:
h) 3rd car for the Le Mans 24 Hours:
For the 24-Hour event only, the manufacturers entered in the FIA World Endurance Championship for LMP1 Manufacturers may enter a 3rd car, subject to the agreement of the Selection Committee for the 24 Hours, which will be eligible to score points in the Championship.
Only the top two classified cars of a manufacturer will be entitled to score points in the Championship (cf. Article 19 b)
This does not imply that three is the maximum number of cars that a manufacturer is allowed to enter. Audi is rumored to enter 2 hybrid R18s and 2 non-hybrid R18s, so 4 cars in total. However, only 3 designated cars can score points for the WEC LMP1 title. The 4th car can still win the 24 hours of Le Mans.
Quote:
f) "Additional" cars:
Exceptionally, and depending on the interest that they might represent for the Championship, the Selection Committee may admit, for one or more events, one or more additional cars, subject to their conformity with the applicable Technical and Homologation regulations.

The additional cars will appear in the classification of the event, but will be invisible for the different classifications for the Championship.
It is unclear whether the ACO is keen to allow four factory R18s. However, as some pointed out, in the past the ACO did allow Peugeot to enter 4 908s (3 factory cars + 1 Oreca car).
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 14:03 (Ref:3003210)   #2440
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It was done in the 90s during the ITC era but not today, no. I don't even think the DTM allows it.
Kolles has the habit of rotating through multiple drivers during the season, when the drivers were not delivering performance or cash

For instance, in 2006 the #19 car was driven by Tielemans, Bleekemolen, Kiesa and Björk consecutively. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_De...ms_and_drivers
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 14:08 (Ref:3003211)   #2441
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For the sake of completeness, there is also a trophy for the private LMP1 team, but a team such as Abt would not qualify as a "private" team.
Off topic, but maybe exposing a flaw in the FIA's reasoning--would Rebellion be excluded from that championship: they get engines from Toyota, and TMG decals feature prominently on their cars. And TMG are the same guys who teamed with Oreca for Toyota's factory LMP1.

So does the FIA mean a team like Pescarolo will be the only type of "private" team elegable for the private championship, or does it include teams that follow the NASCAR/GT-E model, where there are no "factory" teams, but teams still get some support from the manufacturer? If the former, the title will go either to Pescarolo or OAK, as they're the best performing cars with no real factory support from anywhere.

On topic, now: would that make it pointless for Abt to run outside of LM? Maybe Audi's rumored four car entry for LM might be a smoke-screen to just run four Joest cars, with two camo'ed under a different banner, which is no different than the "third" ASNA cars of past seasons.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 14:24 (Ref:3003214)   #2442
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Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK6KqpI_eRU

Bernhard's contribution is seen at 1:46.
These are fantastic promo trailers.
I actually forgot about that one. Agreed! the videos are very nice indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n View Post
Edit:
Just realised you were referring to this trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqXQ4...feature=relmfu

Unsure as to whether Bernhard's omission means a great deal.
Henzler didn't receive any face time, either.
Yeah - perhaps just a coincidence. I certainly hope so. It would be a shame to break up the Dumas/Bernhard duo.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 15:16 (Ref:3003226)   #2443
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FWIW, rumor from Germany has it that Abt will not do GT-Masters next year, presumably to focus on DTM, but I could also see them making room for a WEC or LM-campaign...
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 16:11 (Ref:3003246)   #2444
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Yeah - perhaps just a coincidence. I certainly hope so. It would be a shame to break up the Dumas/Bernhard duo.
Yes, it is one of those super pairings. Similar to Joey Hand and Bill Auberlen. I think it will be good for Timo Bernhard to break away from Dumas in the same way that Joey Hand split with Auberlen. I feel as if Bernhard in in Dumas's shadow as Dumas was considered the quicker of the two with Timo being the "safe hands". Look what joey Hand went on to do after splitting with his longtime teammate. Would be nice for Timo to get some fresh air. I think he has been getting more aggressive(in a good way). He had nice quick stints at Zhuhai.

Timo is German. Romain is French. Maaybe Audi wants more German drivers? The only have Lotterer and Rockenfeller.
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Old 22 Dec 2011, 20:54 (Ref:3003365)   #2445
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It turns out that our discussion about Bernhard choosing between Audi and Porsche is completely hypothetical. Porsche already announced their driver lineup for 2012 when they announced that the development of the hybrid 911 will continue:
Quote:
Like in previous years, Porsche supports its most successful customer teams in 2012 with works drivers. The line up of pilots stays the same with Jörg Bergmeister, Timo Bernhard, Romain Dumas, Wolf Henzler, Marco Holzer, Marc Lieb, Richard Lietz, Patrick Long and Patrick Pilet. "To win races you have to have the right race drivers. And there's no doubt that we have them," stated Matthias Müller, Chairman of the Executive Board at Porsche AG.
I think that (almost) solves the mystery of Audi's WEC lineup. My guess is on Kristensen-McNish and Lotterer-Treluyer.
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 05:33 (Ref:3003450)   #2446
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.....But Mr. G, I think both Dumas and Bernhard will continue to be "on loan" to Audi whenever they want/need them, provided Porsche does not require them.
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 09:25 (Ref:3003481)   #2447
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Yes, in http://www.pitlane-vision.com/gazett...de-2011-r.html Dumas already stated that his program for 2012 will be similar: a lot of GT racing with Porsche and a few races with Audi (Spa, Le Mans, Sebring?). For Bernhard this will probably also be the case.

Because Lotterer and Treluyer have presumably given up their Japanese contract, they will do the full WEC season. If Bernhard would have signed a full time Audi contract, the situation would have been a bit more complicated (3 candidates for only 2 WEC seat).
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 13:09 (Ref:3003545)   #2448
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most likely Bernhard and Dumas will share the 3rd car with someone else?

And with that new 997, I'm sure they'll love driving it. In fact, I believe Bernhard or Dumas were the ones testing the car in Estoril in October. With Porsche they both have a diverse calendar and the mid/long-term chance of driving the new Proto. When looking at the "works drivers", they are the ones with Proto experience.

So, basically, Audi will have the same lineups as last year.

About the 3rd and 4th entries, the Regulation states
Quote:
f) "Additional" cars:
Exceptionally, and depending on the interest that they might represent for the Championship, the Selection Committee may admit, for one or more events, one or more additional cars, subject to their conformity with the applicable Technical and Homologation regulations.

The additional cars will appear in the classification of the event, but will be invisible for the different classifications for the Championship.
Clearly, if the Pugs and Audis wanted to enter a 3rd and/or 4th car for selected races as a Hybrid, instead of the regular Diesels, it would be considered of interest for FIA, WEC, ACO and the whole shabagan.
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 13:24 (Ref:3003548)   #2449
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So, basically, Audi will have the same lineups as last year.
That seems very probable: Fassler-Lotterer-Treluyer, Capello-Kristensen-McNish and Bernhard-Dumas-Rockenfeller.

Of course there is still the rumor that Duval will race for Audi in Le Mans. Bonanomi and some of Audi's DTM youngster are eager to participate in Le Mans as well.
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About the 3rd and 4th entries, the Regulation states

Clearly, if the Pugs and Audis wanted to enter a 3rd and/or 4th car for selected races as a Hybrid, instead of the regular Diesels, it would be considered of interest for FIA, WEC, ACO and the whole shabagan.
In fact, Audi and Peugeot can almost automatically get a 3rd entry, because of this rule:
Quote:
h) 3rd car for the Le Mans 24 Hours:
For the 24-Hour event only, the manufacturers entered in the FIA World Endurance Championship for LMP1 Manufacturers may enter a 3rd car, subject to the agreement of the Selection Committee for the 24 Hours, which will be eligible to score points in the Championship.
The 4th entry will only be approved "exceptionally" and if it is of "interest".
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 14:50 (Ref:3003576)   #2450
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alexkiller8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
well even this year peugeot in 4 races on 7 ran with an extra car (the oreca 908HDi one) that could reach points, but the rule was that only the first 2 best finished cars could obtain points, this isn't fair at all i think because peugeot with a car more than audi had more chance to obtain points. A simple rule should be that only the 2 cars that entered officialy the WEC should reach points, all others not, audi can run LM and other races also with 10 cars, but only the 2 that joint the champ (that will be the #7 and #8) are elegible for drivers, team and manufacters championship. Simple.
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